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Old 02-20-2007, 02:35 PM
HabitatMD HabitatMD is offline
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Default Never Gonna Take a Walk without it

I never have really enough time to do what I need to do on our place. Alway struggling to see the property and get work done at the same time. I am now, from here on out, going to turn my recreational walks on the propert into work walks. I will be carrying some tordon RTU and a modified hatchet with me at all times now. You never know if you are going to uncover a honey locust that needs to die, or see an area you need to release some of the native shrubs. We ended up treating shingle oaks, elms, hackberry, and honey locusts on the walk.

Here's a little area I did this past weekend and some of the other pictures along the way. The snow had been on for less than 24 hours when these pictures were taken. All in all, saw quite abit of sign on the property. I'm sure the sheds were buried in the white stuff.

The killing of some shingle oaks.


Last edited by HabitatMD : 02-20-2007 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 02-20-2007, 02:36 PM
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Found quite a few beds.

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Old 02-20-2007, 02:38 PM
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Picture down the no longer maintained county road.

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Old 02-20-2007, 02:40 PM
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Couple deer in the pipeline easement on the neighbors place. I know, it is a real crappy picture.

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Old 02-20-2007, 02:48 PM
HabitatMD HabitatMD is offline
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Perhaps someone can explain this area to me. We have been working real hard on fescue eradication and this is an area we did not get to. This area has a spring that comes out that is pretty near our creek. The deer were eating the areas of fescue right next to the running water of the spring. We have been iced over for quite a while and have been getting some decent snows as well. I'm guessing the fescue was the only green browse that were remotely available in the area. Our ww plots have been iced over for over a month.


Last edited by HabitatMD : 02-20-2007 at 03:22 PM.
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2007, 04:28 PM
nastyjack nastyjack is offline
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Question why the oaks

HabitatMD,
I'll show my ignorance here, but why would you kill the shingle oaks? I have very few on my property and have never given any thought to them one way or the other. Are they nonproductive or just in the way?
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2007, 04:50 PM
HabitatMD HabitatMD is offline
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The problem with shingle oaks, at least on our place, is that they are regenerating quite quickly in some areas. We are trying to favor other oaks such as post, bur, white, chinkapin, and Northern Reds. Shingle oaks still produce acorns about like any other oak and add to the oak diversity of the property. The problem comes in, and this is with any plant community, when you have a monoculture of any plant type.

Also, from a timber value perspective, although not high on the priority list, typically the reds/whites are more valuble than the shingles. I think USFW said in a previous post, that the wood is not necessarily less asthetically pleasing, just tougher to find a good, straight trunk on shingles.

If shingle oaks was all I had, then I would treat them right while I got other varieties started. But we have a great diversity of other oak (and even hickory) species we would rather have around.

I look at our place as an opportunity cost, what do we give up by having that tree or that grove of trees there. Could there be a blackberry or dogwood thicket there instead?

Shingle oaks are just low on the todempole in my book, that's all. And just so happens most are located in our edge community.

Now I just need to get some pin oak acorns from the front yard and start seeding the farm. I would like to have another member of the Reds on our place.

Last edited by HabitatMD : 02-20-2007 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:38 PM
nastyjack nastyjack is offline
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I understand what your saying reguarding monocultures, it seems like hard maples are overtaking the missouri river bluff country where I live. I still have quite alot of various red oaks but not to many white oak varieties. If I would do a hack & squirt on the maples would the oaks regenerate on thier own? Is there any value to wildlife from hard maples? I know I need to do something, just not sure what. Thanks Jack.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:54 PM
HabitatMD HabitatMD is offline
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I think I had a thread a while back on Sugar (ie hard) maples. We are declaring war on those guys as well.

Let me see if I can dig it up.

Here's one.
http://www.qdmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=7519
and another
http://www.qdmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6966

Sugar maples, IMO, are much more wildlife friendly when they are dead or hinge cut. Deer love browsing them.

Last edited by HabitatMD : 02-20-2007 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 02-20-2007, 07:31 PM
nastyjack nastyjack is offline
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Default Thanks for the info

From reading the prior posts looks like I need to get busy as soon as the heavy sap flow stops. I cut one last weekend to get to some firewood and the sap was already starting to rise. Thanks for your input, I appreciate all ideas. P.S. great pictures in your original post.
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Old 02-20-2007, 09:26 PM
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I always appreciate those pictures with the snow. Our fields are practically bare and maybe one inch or two in the woods.

I always carry a pruning clipper. One of those with two foot handles. You can cut a few limbs on a access trail to a stand, cut a shooting lane, or clip out a space for a ground blind.
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2007, 10:41 PM
HabitatMD HabitatMD is offline
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Nasty,

we are actually having a forester out tomorrow to the farm. We are hoping to sell every single marketable sugar maple on the property along with some of our edge feathering areas and toss in a few good whites and reds to hopefully attract a logger.

Guess we will see and I will keep you posted on how the markets are for sugars.

Here is an article in the Conservationist, don't know if it was in the previous threads, but has some good info about sugars.

http://www.mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2004/03/40.htm

Last edited by HabitatMD : 02-20-2007 at 10:49 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-20-2007, 11:05 PM
Iafarmer Iafarmer is offline
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Cattle consume Fescue much better after a good freeze - seems to "tenderize" the stuff.
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:48 AM
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Keep it up, Dan. Best way to do TSI and not have it be an overwhelming project is to do it a little at a time. How are your post oaks as far as form? They're usually pretty poor in form around here, but they may be better there.
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastyjack View Post
I understand what your saying reguarding monocultures, it seems like hard maples are overtaking the missouri river bluff country where I live. I still have quite alot of various red oaks but not to many white oak varieties. If I would do a hack & squirt on the maples would the oaks regenerate on thier own? Is there any value to wildlife from hard maples? I know I need to do something, just not sure what. Thanks Jack.

They have more value to deer when they are young and the oaks should be able to regenerate on their own...are they having a problem for some reason that you know of?

I came through your area the other day. Are you near Butler? I stopped at some little cafe/bakery there with a strange name that had some pretty good food.
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Old 02-21-2007, 04:40 AM
nastyjack nastyjack is offline
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HabitatMD,
Thanks for the link to the article in the conservationist I seem to remember reading that some time past. Looks like I should have done something about the sugar maples before selling oak logs 6-7 years ago. Oh well better to do something now than never.
USFWC,
According to the article the maples are shading out oak regeneration and the black oaks are dying at an alarming rate on my farm. Two weeks ago I cut four black oaks that would average 22-24 inch diameter at breast hieght for firewood because they died last summer. It seems like I lose 8-12 mature black oaks each year for the past half dozen years or so. I've heard several theorys why blacks are dying across the ozarks but I certainly don't have a defenate answer. I live much farther north than Butler right on the MO river east of Jeff City.
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:23 AM
HabitatMD HabitatMD is offline
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Nasty,

Do a little reading on Oak decline. Should explain what is going on with the blacks.

USFWC, the actual shape of the trunks on the shingles aren't aweful. They tend to have quite a few branches growing in that first 8-9 ft though.
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Old 02-21-2007, 11:29 AM
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Im looking for something to H&S sweetgums and other misc trees. We have mixed hard woods and im wanting to remove some of the understory. Im not real good at tree scouting but its hard to miss a sweetgum. Im a little put back to see arsnal ac may take 2 years to kill. Tordon RTU had gums on its label but did not say "sweetgums". Is there a difference?
I might chainsaw them this spring to just remove them then spray the stumps.
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Old 02-21-2007, 04:45 PM
buckeyehuntr buckeyehuntr is offline
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I read your post and you stated you are killing off the honey locust, im no tree expert but i think i have a few honey locusts in my back yard at the deer camp. For the four years i have owned the place i dont have another tree that attracts as many deer as the locust does. I am assuming the honey locust has a long banana type pod that falls and turns black on the ground. If this is the tree i have to tell you that my experience has been the deer love these things like no other. i have 20 apple trees and when the apples are falling they will abandon the locust pods but after the apples are done i can count on seeing deer every day searching for these pods. They really like them after they have been on the ground for a bit and after a snow they dig em up! could be a different tree or i could have demented deer too!! i guess if i had too many it would be different but i would keep a few around if i could.
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Old 02-21-2007, 05:04 PM
HabitatMD HabitatMD is offline
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Yep, them are the ones Buckeye. Big 'ole thorns on 'em! The deer do enjoy eating the pods. The trees do some pretty good damage to tractor tires as well. Wildlife beneficial, definitely.............................prefer to have them on the property, not really. I'd trade a white oak for a honey locust any day.
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