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Old 08-26-2012, 11:48 PM
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Default 19-19-19 vs 12-12-12

19-19-19 sells close to 12-12-12 but is 75% more fertilizer. What is wrong with spreading it a little thinner and getting more bang for the buck? Am I missing something?
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:04 AM
CaveCreek CaveCreek is offline
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Isn't that 58% more? : )

Typically those fertilizers don't sell for the same price. But yes, if they are the same price, with nothing else different between them (for instance, micro-nutrients) then there would be little reason not to go with the Triple-19.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CaveCreek View Post
Isn't that 58% more? : )

Typically those fertilizers don't sell for the same price. But yes, if they are the same price, with nothing else different between them (for instance, micro-nutrients) then there would be little reason not to go with the Triple-19.

Math was never my strong suit , not the same price but not 58% more, didn't understand why anyone, especially a food plotter would buy/lug the weaker formula.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:46 AM
yoderj@cox.net yoderj@cox.net is offline
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It is the same principle as buying a gym membership to workout. You get to carry 58% more fertilizer from the store to your pickup and from your pickup to your spreader with the 12-12-12. You have to expect to pay a little more for that extra work-out!
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:01 AM
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Potentially burning plants is the down side. If you put it on too heavy, you can cause problems. 19-19-19 probably isn't so bad, but when you get into the 30's it's like playing with fire - there's a fine line between a big serving and O.D..
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:28 AM
broom_jm broom_jm is offline
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Well, I can see some situations where I "might" buy triple-12 over triple-19, but they would be few and far between.

Say you have a 1/10th acre plot and the soil survey says to add 120# each of P&K. With triple-12, you can apply 2 bags and get exactly what was prescribed, plus most of the nitrogen you are likely to need, depending on what you're planting.

Basically it comes down to possibly simplifying your math and not having to apply portions of a bag of 19-19-19 on small plots. For larger areas, where higher total volumes of nutrients are needed, go with whatever is most cost-effective. Personally, I tend to avoid the triple-x fertilizers, unless they just happen to work out well for the P&K needs. More often than not, I find myself using something like 6-24-24 and some urea to meet the target numbers.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:22 AM
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Cost of 19 = A
Cost of 12 = B

If A x 12/19 < B buy A

Cost of 19 X 63.2% vs cost of 12 is the economic compare. Just like buying lime you have to compare apples to apples.

12s has 37% less NPK than 19s ; so you need (1-.37=.63 ) of 19s to = 12s

If you need 300 lbs of 12s then the math for 19 is the same.

300 X 63.2% x .19= 36 NPK = 300 x .12 = 36 NPK So 189lbs of 19s (300x.63= 189lbs ) to = 300lbs of 12s.

Math is more important when buying bulk.

If you're buying by the bag then it's 6 bags of 12s vs 4 bags of 19s. It may cost you more for 19s since you're paying for 11lbs you don't need.

If you need 200 lbs of 19s and can only fine 12s it's the inverse

200 / .632= 316lbs x .12= 38lbs NPK = 200 x .19 = 38lbs NPK. 316lbs vs 200lbs

19 / 12 = 1.58 , which means you need 58% More of 12s to = 19s

200 x1.58 also = 316 lbs of 12s to = 200lbs of 19s.



Fun fun......
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:33 AM
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This raises a question for me as I'm starting my first plot (I've helped others quite a bit but...). My local southern states will custom mix whatever fertilizer that I want. Is that not the case in some places or is this custom mix going to cost me and arm and leg compared to just buying bags?
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:50 AM
VHORN4 VHORN4 is offline
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Gator,

I have done this for many years and bought fertilizer every year multiple times. Unless you're doing a small amount, you're almost always better off getting it in bulk. You can get your mixture much more exact and it is almost always less expensive too.

If you have a very small plot, it may be easier and cheaper to do bags. I do a lot of acres, so I get a fertilzer buggy to use (which cost some places). I also buy from Southern States. If you really want to do it right, you need to get soil test done too. That will tell you exactly what is recommended for your soil and your crop.

VHORN4
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:39 AM
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alot of times for me its all a matter of what is available and what my budget is and what my plots are or will be planted in. What typically happens is that my small plots need differnent things. Clover/soybean plots don't need N, yet cereal grains and brassica needs N, and corn thrives with alot of N. I try to avoid buying what my crops don't need and then mix and match as needed. If you can get triple 19 for almost triple 12 price then it seems like a good idea, just remember to adjust your applied amount. Just think most of us didn't think deer hunting had anything to do with math.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:47 AM
yoderj@cox.net yoderj@cox.net is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator View Post
This raises a question for me as I'm starting my first plot (I've helped others quite a bit but...). My local southern states will custom mix whatever fertilizer that I want. Is that not the case in some places or is this custom mix going to cost me and arm and leg compared to just buying bags?

Gator,

It is much less expensive to buy it in bulk. I use southern states for my fertilizer. I used to have them custom mix it and apply it, but I found another way to save money and get better results.

Basically, you can get MAP or DAP to get your P and N components. I can't recall the percentages off the top of my head, but MAP has less N and more P by proportion. They can add urea or ams if you need more N. You can get potash to cover our K component. They will mix these in bulk in any combination for free.

Now, here is the issue. The mix occurs before it is loaded on to the truck or buggy. The truck adjust the amount of the mix (lbs/ac) but not the mix. So, folks just typically do a bunch of averaging across all of there fields. This means you are spreading more of some elements than needed on some fields and less of other elements than needed on some fields.

So, I now use a fertilizer buggy the coop rents and spread it myself. First, it is less expensive to rent the buggy than to have them spread it with a truck. Second, I make two trips, one for MAP and one for Potash. I completely ignore N when it comes to fertilizer. I use a lot of legumes in my mixes and rotations. The only N that I'm adding is the N that is in the MAP necessary to achieve my P requirement. So, if I'm ignoring N and making one trip for my P material and one for my K material, I can adjust the amount at each field. This lets me meet my sol requirements without applying unnecessary elements because of using a custom mix and averaging. It takes a little more of my time but costs me less and gives me the same or better results.

One more thing if you haven't done this before. Soil tests usually report the lbs/ac of the element that is required. There is a lot of inert material in MAP, DAP, and Potash. You need to know the percentages of P, N, and K in each to calculate the lbs/ac of each material that is needed to achieve you element requirements.

Good Luck,

Jack

Last edited by yoderj@cox.net : 08-27-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:59 AM
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Default My 2 cents...

I mow my Fall plot areas approximatly 3 times a year to maintain good soil builder. I seperate my spring and falls but that is a seperate story.
BUT, I will being putting down Triple 19 this weekend as I till under this years fodder to get the fertilizer down into the soil (we have some sandy soil...) to help promote deeper roots and to try and keep the Nitrogen as it will dissapate if I don't time it with rain.

Now, come Sept. 15th weekend I run a harrow drag over it and plant my seeds. After the first few inches of emergent, I generally toss some mantenance fertilizer out using Triple 13 as it is cheaper and readily available locally.

So far, great luck with this and due to the timing I generally have nice young soft growth for bow season and will have good growth for rifle on the few plots I have stands on (big believer in safe plots).

Like I say, just my 2 cents... works for me. I've had soil samples done in the past and this is a good run for what I am doing.

I try not to make things too difficult unless I am doing huge acreage plots.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:07 PM
LetMGrow LetMGrow is offline
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Triple 19 is pretty much the staple of my plot fertilizer use. Dollar for dollar I feel the value is better as opposed to triple 12 0r 13. I just use a little less and go.
Only on a very few occasions have I needed special blends. This past spring I had an agent from our county Extension Service look at trees I had planted last year because they were turning yellowish in color. The agent suggested I apply some fertilizer with a high phosphorus content. To my surprise the fertilizer supplier wouldn'd blend this until I had a letter from the agent stating in writing the blend was for a specific purpose. Then we went over the numbers and they wouldn't sell me anymore than the actual job called for. Apparently some folks are using phosphorus in the homebrewed drug making business and our state (NY) is monitoring the sale of this type of product.
Lynn
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:26 PM
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The big difference is the type of N that is used. 19-19-19 and 17-17-17 use Urea, and 'lower' formulations like 13-13-13 and 12-12-12 almost certainly use either Ammonium Nitrate or Sulfate. They likely also differ in whether they use DAP or MAP, and Potassium Sulfate or Muriate.

So, if you understand the difference between all of those, it can make some difference, and it also explains why the triple 19 can be the same or similar price as triple 13.

For most applications, it is probably most economical to buy the triple 19.
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