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Old 04-06-2012, 11:33 PM
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Default 5 Shank Disc Chisel - HP Needed?

How much HP does it take to pull a 5 shank disc chisel like this one? The farmer that plants my larger fields has a bigger one and man does it do a nice job. Thinking about getting one to turn my 12ac or so of food plots. My 6' 3pt Woods disc just seems to take several passes. Thoughts?
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:35 AM
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I have a 7 shank that 90hp handles pretty well as long as you aren't trying to win a race.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:50 AM
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Okay it depends on your soil. You see a lot of guys say 10hp per chisel. I personally don't think that is enough. You have to keep enough ground speed to turn the ground the way the plow is designed to work. I also think some of the 10HP per chisel folks don't have coulters in front. That plow does. If I were you I would assume 75hp for that plow. That having been said, I have a five shank MF with coulters in front that is my favorite piece of equipment and I use a 90hp tractor to pull it, but believe a 75hp tractor would do just fine.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:57 AM
itsallaboutage itsallaboutage is offline
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70 hp or more in hard ground
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:13 AM
whitetail fanatic whitetail fanatic is offline
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A lot of it depends on what kind of points or chisels are on the implement too. It's hard to tell in that picture, but it almost looks like it might have straight 3" points and not the large 4" twisted chisels? The wider the points/chisels will pull harder, and if they are twisted instead of straight they will pull harder. I have a 5 shank with 4" wide twisted chisels, and there are no discs on mine like the one in the picture, and I pull it with a 81 horse massey. It does OK but 90 to 100 horse would work much better because as mentioned before, you have to keep up a certain speed in order for it to work like it should. A disc chisel with 4" twisted chisels I think I would want around 100 HP to handle it. We have heavier soil, in light sandier soil, it would take less HP
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetail fanatic View Post
A lot of it depends on what kind of points or chisels are on the implement too. It's hard to tell in that picture, but it almost looks like it might have straight 3" points and not the large 4" twisted chisels? The wider the points/chisels will pull harder, and if they are twisted instead of straight they will pull harder. I have a 5 shank with 4" wide twisted chisels, and there are no discs on mine like the one in the picture, and I pull it with a 81 horse massey. It does OK but 90 to 100 horse would work much better because as mentioned before, you have to keep up a certain speed in order for it to work like it should. A disc chisel with 4" twisted chisels I think I would want around 100 HP to handle it. We have heavier soil, in light sandier soil, it would take less HP

This is all a good point. It is a little tough without see in the plow. I will modify my earlier response to say 75hp is the minimum you would want.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:49 AM
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I got a 3 pt 7 shank chisel plow (no cutters) with twisted shovels and it is all our old 4010 JD wants and its around 80 horse.

Works great for opening up new plots!

Just a reference point! I wish i had a few more ponies to pull it a little faster and turn the soil over a little better.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:58 PM
whitetail fanatic whitetail fanatic is offline
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For those of you who have used both or have experience with both, how does a chisel plow compare to a disc chisel? Does it take more HP to run a disc chisel compared to a chisel plow when all other variables are the same? As mentioned, I have just a plain 5 shank chisel plow with 4 inch wide twisted chisels (no cutting discs). My 81 horse has a hard time pulling it, but it does OK. The shanks are spaced 15 inches apart, and it has a hard time busting all the soil between each shank. Seems like a disc chisel would work so much better since it cuts through the soil ahead of the shanks, so it seems like that would make the soil split apart and roll over much better. However, would a 5 shank disc chisel take a lot more HP to operate than just a plain 5 shank chisel plow, assuming both have 4 inch wide twisted chisels? In some ways, it almost seems like it would take less HP with the disc chisle because it slices the soil in narrower strips ahead of the chisels, then the chisels would have an easier time busting up the soil inbetween, or does it not work that way??

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Old 05-15-2012, 06:03 PM
CaveCreek CaveCreek is offline
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Well, there are lots of different implements out there, many the same, almost, but not quite....

for the disc-chisel here, in question... I cant quite tell, are those straight coulters with no (concavity) or are they a traditional disk coulter?

In general, WF: a chisel, with vs without front discs... the disked model is going to take more horsepower. It's simply more steel in the ground and therefore more total resistance.

Now if we were looking at a "renovating" type implement, like for hayland... that could be a different story... in that case, there is one leading "STRAIGHT" coulter per chisel point (tine). Those coulters are opening coulters, as opposed to being for the purpose of tillage. The material is thinner, and straight (no concavity)... basically they are like the lead on a no-till plow, their purpose is to cut the vegetation, and begin slicing into the surface, prior to the tine. In this case, I would say that there wouldn't necessarily be any increase in pull-load, and perhaps even a tad less.

On the disk chisel though, there's typically more surface area of steel in the ground, and the coulters are actually there, tilling the soil, as opposed to just cutting vegetation, and/or creating an initial/lead cut in the soil.

The combo of tines and disks on such an implement, offer some advantages of both solo implements. A chisel digs deep, better than a disk in most cases... while a disk breaks soil apart (finer particles) more efficiently, and does a better job of actual mortality on weeds.

The chisel on a disk chisel, can help the the disk coulters engage the ground better. Whereas a tandem disk has a tendency to ride of harder compacted areas, the tines on a combo implement, help keep the discs in the ground... and force the discs through that compacted area, rather than allowing them to ride over the top (up and out) of the ground. Such an implement can provide a more uniform seed bed (depth of tillage) across the field... which is good, unless you have areas (large rocks/stumps) that would have been better left alone.

Plotter: That's a pretty hefty implement, I might look for something a bit smaller, or even just for a chisel plow. Making your initial pass with a chisel plow, then waiting about 2 weeks, (for existing green vegetation to break down) will make your Woods Disk a much more efficient implement. In general, wide-spaced "tined" implements are meant for initial/primary seed bed preparation, while disks are best suited for secondary tillage (clod busting, conversion to a fine seed-bed).

But here's one additional notion... If you can get that implement to run smoothly, with the transport wheels "partially" lowered.... then that implement might work well for you. Use of depth wheels, largely facilitates the ease of most farm implements. There's no need to plow the ground to a 4 inch depth in some spots, and 8 inches in others. Limiting the tillage depth of your implement, helps your machinery to run more smoothly. It lessens hp requirement, strain on the engine, and strain on your implement. With good crop rotation, deep tillage is not necessary as it was once though to be. Especially when burn down chemical (round up for instance) are used in conjunction with tillage, for weed control.

People talk about HP requirements per tine, of implements, but as mentioned, soil type, soil conditions, and even vegetation type and density play a part in all of that. The type of tine is important too, as someone has already mentioned. The actual witdth of the TINE, as well as the width and style of the POINT, on the tine, make a difference.

Lastly, however... the MOST DETERMINING FACTOR... is going to be your CHOSEN, DEPTH OF TILLAGE. No way is the HP requirement going to be the same between running at 6 inches, or 12 inches.

Plow more shallowly, and you can make a lot of things work, that others would say clouldn't.
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:55 PM
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Looked like straight blades with the cupped 3" points on the shanks. I wold say to do an effective job with that tool a 100 hp tractor would do good. Also having weight on the rear axle will help a lot and reduce slippage. Like cave creek said depends on how deep you want to go. My recommendation is if you can run it deep enough to turn the dirt and have good speed to really roll it over will do you more good than going half the speed and twice as deep. The 10hp per shank I've never heard of and I don't think that's good advice. If it were we could pull our 19 shank disc chisel with a 190 hp tractor. It will stop a 425hp track tractor.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Horsepower. Better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaveCreek View Post
Well, there are lots of different implements out there, many the same, almost, but not quite....

for the disc-chisel here, in question... I cant quite tell, are those straight coulters with no (concavity) or are they a traditional disk coulter?

In general, WF: a chisel, with vs without front discs... the disked model is going to take more horsepower. It's simply more steel in the ground and therefore more total resistance.

Now if we were looking at a "renovating" type implement, like for hayland... that could be a different story... in that case, there is one leading "STRAIGHT" coulter per chisel point (tine). Those coulters are opening coulters, as opposed to being for the purpose of tillage. The material is thinner, and straight (no concavity)... basically they are like the lead on a no-till plow, their purpose is to cut the vegetation, and begin slicing into the surface, prior to the tine. In this case, I would say that there wouldn't necessarily be any increase in pull-load, and perhaps even a tad less.

On the disk chisel though, there's typically more surface area of steel in the ground, and the coulters are actually there, tilling the soil, as opposed to just cutting vegetation, and/or creating an initial/lead cut in the soil.

The combo of tines and disks on such an implement, offer some advantages of both solo implements. A chisel digs deep, better than a disk in most cases... while a disk breaks soil apart (finer particles) more efficiently, and does a better job of actual mortality on weeds.

The chisel on a disk chisel, can help the the disk coulters engage the ground better. Whereas a tandem disk has a tendency to ride of harder compacted areas, the tines on a combo implement, help keep the discs in the ground... and force the discs through that compacted area, rather than allowing them to ride over the top (up and out) of the ground. Such an implement can provide a more uniform seed bed (depth of tillage) across the field... which is good, unless you have areas (large rocks/stumps) that would have been better left alone.

Plotter: That's a pretty hefty implement, I might look for something a bit smaller, or even just for a chisel plow. Making your initial pass with a chisel plow, then waiting about 2 weeks, (for existing green vegetation to break down) will make your Woods Disk a much more efficient implement. In general, wide-spaced "tined" implements are meant for initial/primary seed bed preparation, while disks are best suited for secondary tillage (clod busting, conversion to a fine seed-bed).

But here's one additional notion... If you can get that implement to run smoothly, with the transport wheels "partially" lowered.... then that implement might work well for you. Use of depth wheels, largely facilitates the ease of most farm implements. There's no need to plow the ground to a 4 inch depth in some spots, and 8 inches in others. Limiting the tillage depth of your implement, helps your machinery to run more smoothly. It lessens hp requirement, strain on the engine, and strain on your implement. With good crop rotation, deep tillage is not necessary as it was once though to be. Especially when burn down chemical (round up for instance) are used in conjunction with tillage, for weed control.

People talk about HP requirements per tine, of implements, but as mentioned, soil type, soil conditions, and even vegetation type and density play a part in all of that. The type of tine is important too, as someone has already mentioned. The actual witdth of the TINE, as well as the width and style of the POINT, on the tine, make a difference.

Lastly, however... the MOST DETERMINING FACTOR... is going to be your CHOSEN, DEPTH OF TILLAGE. No way is the HP requirement going to be the same between running at 6 inches, or 12 inches.

Plow more shallowly, and you can make a lot of things work, that others would say clouldn't.
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