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Old 03-27-2012, 09:56 PM
evers12 evers12 is offline
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Default eagle beans fertilizer question

I'm planning on planting about 5 acres of eagle forage soybeans this spring. My PH level is good at 6.5. My question is what type of fertilizer would you all suggest. I plan on adding innoculant to the seed. I don't think nitrogen would be needed. Do I need to add fertilizer at all? any thoughts?
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:00 PM
yoderj@cox.net yoderj@cox.net is offline
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You want to add P and K in amounts recommend by your soil test. How much you need really depends on your soil.

After you get the basics down, it is probably worth checking Sulphur and Boron. I'm to the point where I'll be trying to get those levels up a bit.

Thanks,

Jack
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:11 PM
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Jack, is it best to disc P&K in or can it be broadcasted before rain? Curious myself but hopefully the answer may also help Evers12. Thanks!
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:07 PM
yoderj@cox.net yoderj@cox.net is offline
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I'm mostly no-tilling so I'm just top dressing with fertilizer. I don't have a fertilizer option on my drill. When I broadcast, I do lightly till in the fertilizer. As you say, before a rain is best. I have MAP and DAP as options for P and I usually use MAP because it has more P and less N. A few years back they raised the price on one compared to the other (can't remember which right now). When I talked to the manager at the coop, he told me the price increase was because they added a polymer coating so the N would last longer if you don't get rain. The following year, the prices equalized when they added the polymer to the other. So, the advantage of disking in the fertilizer may depend on somewhat on the fertilizer.

There are some soil guys much smarter than me on this stuff that will hopefully chime in. I'm learning, but my soils understanding is that of a layman.

Thanks,

Jack

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Old 03-28-2012, 12:25 AM
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Default Depends on soil P,K,OM, soil texture, yield goals etc

The 6.5 pH isn't usefull in itself.....high magnesium or high sodium soils don't grow very good beans but each can have pH 6.5.

Tell us more about your soil test?

For a first time bean field, some will double innoculate the seed.

Beans and other legumes fix about 50-75% of their N under average to ideal conditions. The balance of that N either comes from soil OM or from that applied (manures or inorganic N).

PS....high yiled beans are fed N well beyond what most imagine!
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SARE: Managing Cover Crops Profitably
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http://www.back-to-basics.net/home

Quality of Native Plant Forage Species Important to White-tailed Deer and Goats in South Central Oklahoma.
https://www.noble.org/global/ag/wild.../cdversion.pdf
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:14 AM
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I use bought a pallet of triple super phosphate and potash. Thats what I use. Disced in, it doesn't move much in the soil and I want it in the root zone from the get go.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:27 PM
evers12 evers12 is offline
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I haven't done a complete soil test on the fields recently so I guess I need to do that first to see what it may or may not need. I've planted beans with good success in the past and always just applied a 12-12-12 fertilizer. Last year I really had a tough time because I didn't get my beans in until early June with a really wet spring. They never did take off with heavy browsing and dry conditions. The year before when I planted in early May I ended up having 6 foot high beans...amazing stuff! Even local farmers were impressed.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:57 PM
welka welka is offline
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May sound anti-soil test, but we planted Eagle beans 3 years in a row with pH 6-7, didn't use any fertilizer and had great yield. Soil test said we needed P and K, but decided to try it without it and it worked fine. You definitely want to add a scarecrow per acre to give the beans a chance to get high enough to withstand browse for 1-2 months. BTW - decided to go with regular RR group 5 beans as they did as good as Eagle, produced seeds, and were half the price. Good luck.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:12 AM
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Without a soil test, i would put out about 300lbs/acre of 0-20-20 and disk it in. I never add nitrogen in the summer, it just promotes weed growth, although i've never planted Eagle beans. I'm no soil expert, but my food plots always look good.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:51 AM
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Just remember that how a plant looks isn't reflective of if its adding nutritional value or maximizing nutritional value. Might still get eaten, but a plot with proper fertilization could add much more nutrition lb per lb vs one without. Even though they both look good. Whats not in the soil, can't end up in the deer.

I have one plot that calls for 68 lbs per acre and one for 100lb of P , so it really does depend soil by soil.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banc123 View Post
Just remember that how a plant looks isn't reflective of if its adding nutritional value or maximizing nutritional value. Might still get eaten, but a plot with proper fertilization could add much more nutrition lb per lb vs one without. Even though they both look good. Whats not in the soil, can't end up in the deer.

I have one plot that calls for 68 lbs per acre and one for 100lb of P , so it really does depend soil by soil.

Banc123, I totally agree, i was just saying in abscence of a soil test, 0-20-20 is a good spring general fertilizer.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:57 AM
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I hope the origal poster returns soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blumsden View Post
Without a soil test, i would put out about 300lbs/acre of 0-20-20 and disk it in. I never add nitrogen in the summer, it just promotes weed growth, although i've never planted Eagle beans. I'm no soil expert, but my food plots always look good.

Some things to ponder just for sake of dicussion.....for a 45 bu bean yield, the plants need about 170 lbs of N so we are told by the agronomist. Soybeans are about 40% crude protein (6.4% N)....so 0.064 x 45 x 60 ~ 170.

Say we have avg gowing conditions though the season and get 50% N from nodulation which is 85....our soil is 3% OM so 25 lbs x 3 = 75 lbs....85+75=160.....170-160 indicates we are short 10 lbs N. This N def will most likely hit just before pod fill when most planted soybeans are beginning to shuttle nutrients from leaf to pod and N fixsation shuts down....leaves turn yellow and are cast as the nutrients depleted.

It is interesting that Kip Cullers uses both high litter rates and fertigation with AMS for his comp beans....they nodulate/fix N but do not shed leaves...pods mature....plants are chemically defoliated then harvested. Why? His roots continue to supply adequate nutrients to the leaf even after pod fill...a large soil nutrient reserve. His top yield is 164 bu/ac if memory is correct.....164 x 60 x 0.64 = 630 lbs N/ac...for reference.

My point is that if a little extra N is there then soys will find a way to use it! One should consider growing conditions each year, previous cover crop, soil OM etc.

So how de we get around the weed issue in beans with added N? plant population, timely spraying, full canopy closure, and timely application of the right form of slow realse N (AMS, DAP...N in the ammonical [NH4+]....also fall applied manure over a cover). In a healthly soil, the bacteria will convernt NH4 to nitrate slowly over a 6-8 week time frame which meters availbility to both plant and weed.

This is a good slide show explaining the above. Please keep in mind that MN soils and growing conditions are way way different than in the southland.
http://www.soils.wisc.edu/extension/...eans_Ruark.pdf

P is different....it cycles through the OM cycle....for fields under 30 lbs P/ac soil test get your P2O5 down in fall...IMO.
__________________
SARE: Managing Cover Crops Profitably
http://www.sare.org/publications/cov...covercrops.pdf

Good white clover read: search for 'white clover'
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1251/B1251.htm

Back-to-basics - fertilizer information
http://www.back-to-basics.net/home

Quality of Native Plant Forage Species Important to White-tailed Deer and Goats in South Central Oklahoma.
https://www.noble.org/global/ag/wild.../cdversion.pdf
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgallow View Post
Soybeans are about 40% crude protein (6.4% N)....so 0.064 x 45 x 60 ~ 170.

dgallow,
what's the 60 in your equation?
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:40 PM
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Bushel weight for soy is 60 lbs!

Here are a few more:
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/bushels.html

I was in a hurry the 170 is lbs N per ac removed in the soy grain.

Cover or no cover crop and residues also figure into the N equations. N is one of the hardest to put a finger on for farmers and plotters. The safest bet is to do annual N strip trials across the plot over a decade or so. You'll learn what is or is not needed on your farm and when conditions warrant extra N.

I would encourage those who have the $$ and time. Those who have radish planted (either winter killed or at a month or so after termination) with a drill or with a planter to sample soil in the radish row and between the radish rows....do about 10 to 20 cores of each to a 6-7" depth....have the lab do a basic soil test on each....you may be very surprised what you see. Some very impressive numbers for in row vs inter-row came across my desk this week...impressive enough that I want to compare on my own farm...killed sod vs rye/radish covers both areas in beans.

I like about 20-30 lb N from a bag for beans, alf, and clover annually...sometimes a fall and and spring app...AMS is a good stable for for these broadcasts plus the S.
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SARE: Managing Cover Crops Profitably
http://www.sare.org/publications/cov...covercrops.pdf

Good white clover read: search for 'white clover'
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1251/B1251.htm

Back-to-basics - fertilizer information
http://www.back-to-basics.net/home

Quality of Native Plant Forage Species Important to White-tailed Deer and Goats in South Central Oklahoma.
https://www.noble.org/global/ag/wild.../cdversion.pdf
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