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  #81  
Old 02-26-2012, 05:31 PM
shmoopy shmoopy is offline
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I see, so it's all or nothing? Perhaps we should fence and domesticate every currently wild creature in North America then... or let everything loose. Classic non sequitur.

Opposing the penning, breeding and commercialization of inherently wild creatures like whitetail deer is hardly an extreme stand. Even those among us who aren't concerned from an ethical standpoint should be concerned about the rampant and often illegal trade between "deer farms" that has been proven to spread CWD, and who knows what else.

QDMA should be applauded for this stand.
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  #82  
Old 02-26-2012, 07:45 PM
edmhunter edmhunter is offline
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Originally Posted by shmoopy View Post
Put me down as one sportsman who has a big problem with high fences. Wildlife is just that... WILD. Once the fence goes up and the big checks get written to shoot the enclosed captives any semblence of sportsmanship is gone, Deer become just another commodity to be traded and sold. That's how the importation of "big buck genes" got started and CWD is just one of the terrible unintended consequence. Keep the wild in wildlife... no more fences!

What does a fence have to do with a animal being wild? If you put a 10 sq. mile fence around an area you will still have wild deer there. Deer hunting is bought and sold all the time. Domestic deer being rased is the problem not fences. We have a lot of big companys that have put up fences for security and wild deer have been trap inside. I have never heard of this causing CWD.
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  #83  
Old 02-26-2012, 07:59 PM
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Munsterlndr Munsterlndr is offline
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Originally Posted by edmhunter View Post
What does a fence have to do with a animal being wild? If you put a 10 sq. mile fence around an area you will still have wild deer there. Deer hunting is bought and sold all the time. Domestic deer being rased is the problem not fences. We have a lot of big companys that have put up fences for security and wild deer have been trap inside. I have never heard of this causing CWD.

The only thing that I would disagree with is the statement that domestic deer being raised is the problem. I'd say that domestic deer being transported across state lines and into areas where disease did not previously exist that is the problem, at least from a disease risk mitigation standpoint. CWD is not a spontaneous disease, just putting deer or elk behind a fence does not cause them to come down with CWD. It has to be introduced somehow. I'd point out again that hunters bringing deer or deer parts across state lines, whether they are conforming with existing laws or not, pose essentially the same kind of risk of introducing disease into areas where it has not been previously found. Yet I see very little discussion of the risk to the resource that poses. I have no idea how many deer and elk are transported between states by high fence operations, it would be interesting to compare that figure to the number of deer transported by hunters.
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  #84  
Old 02-26-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Munsterlndr View Post
The only thing that I would disagree with is the statement that domestic deer being raised is the problem. I'd say that domestic deer being transported across state lines and into areas where disease did not previously exist that is the problem, at least from a disease risk mitigation standpoint.

I will agree to agree.

Quote:
I'd point out again that hunters bringing deer or deer parts across state lines, whether they are conforming with existing laws or not, pose essentially the same kind of risk of introducing disease into areas where it has not been previously found.

Technically I guess it could be the same kind of risk, but not the same level of risk. One deer running around would be a much higher risk of spreading it than transported meat. I'll leave that to the scientists to figure out and for the experts to make the right call.
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  #85  
Old 02-26-2012, 08:58 PM
shmoopy shmoopy is offline
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Of course fences don't create disease (although stress in wildly un-naturally concentrated deer pens is very high and may contribute to disease).

My point is, once the fences go up and for-profit "deer hunts" become established the trade between breeders inevitably follows. This spreads CWD. There is no question about this among biologists.

Kudos to QDMA for their strong stance. I hope the over-heated reaction among so called hunters who pay to shoot canned deer illustrates the inseperability of the deer trade and fenced hunting issues.
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  #86  
Old 02-27-2012, 01:48 AM
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It looks like QDMA is taking this stance against an industry which isn't anti hunting on the grounds of "precautionary principle"."the risks are to great if we get it wrong".

What if this is wrong,& all you are doing is further dividing the hunting community?

Are deer the only species which pass on CWD,EHD,MCF,Bluetounge,etc?How do you intend to manage sheep?

Is this more about protecting your idea or tradition of hunting than abaiting the risk of disease?

No doubt there are some bad deer breeders & bad practices.Messing up types & producing O.v frankensteinus,can't be good if they escape,there could even be animal welfare issues.Yet someone must want them if there's a market. The USA can't be anti free market,can it?I'm flabergasted.

Are there still unpolluted pockets of whitetail & pure subspecies left in areas where these farms are?If not are the deer farmers responsible?Are any farms restoring,breeding rare,idigenious phenotypes? Is there still 38 sub species of whitetail in America?

Could better regulation be an option instead of prohibition?

I would have thought the greatest risk to deer hunting would be those with anthropomorphic beliefs,pushing the views that fish & animals are like primitave humans(Bambi) & should be treated as such.If it hasn't started yet it will,so it might be wiser to build bridges with all deer stakeholders.

Just some thoughts from a down under deer tradgic.It's a shame to see deer folk at each other.

Cheers Sharkey
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  #87  
Old 02-27-2012, 02:02 AM
CaveCreek CaveCreek is offline
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Originally Posted by banc123 View Post
I don't think many here have a big problem with high fence, nor does the organization. Its the importation of out of state deer and manufacturing breeding and non natural outcomes.

That's where the focus needs to be. More than likely, if there are cases linked to high fenced properties, then it is because of transfer of animals from one local to another, not because of the fence.

Incidentally, many state wildlife agencies themselves, transported whitetail from one state to another, many moons ago. Would be interesting to know if any CWD was transferred during that time.

For those who erect fences where confronted with neighbors "effectively" shooting out the local population, it's a difficult situation to lay judgement over.
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  #88  
Old 02-27-2012, 09:54 AM
brutusbeefcake brutusbeefcake is offline
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QDMA will not lose membership over this decision. If anything, they'll gain membership based solely on the fact that the common deer hunter, who will never be able to afford the opportunity to hunt a place where these genetic freakazoid deer are raised, will now see QDMA as their voice. As an organization that truly fights for the little man.

This is true. If you don't think it is then I would suggest to stop and count all the new guys on this thread that are here because they know it is true. I wonder, out of the millions of hunters in the USA, what percent would say they think high fences should be.

Quote:
This went on for years then the old Gospel song I Saw The Light hit home. I took my wife & son to
Texas for the first commercial hunt we ever made. I didn't hunt, just
my son & wife. We went to Schmidt Double T Ranch in Mason Texas. What
an experience to see the magnificent whitetail deer be able to reach
maturity and interact in the wild like he was suppose to. Here is the
catch, it was high fenced and I SAW THE LIGHT. I went home & set the
plans to High Fence my farm.

Ok Darin,
Do you realize how completely out of reach and on another level this is for 99+% of all deer hunters??? Yet that micro % is threatening the health of the entire deer herd and how about doing a little research before saying that EHD isn't even mentioned on here.

Quote:
Just a regular Joe of a deer hunter. But I have chosen a different path of direction in my journey of deer hunting.
The ONLY reason you could make this choice is because you were wealthy enough to fence in your hunting area.
For the majority of deer hunters it's a huge stretch to come up with the money to plant a food plot.

For those of you who make the argument that putting a fence up makes no difference on the wildness of you game.....knock your self out man..... why did you put up a fence? There's more to something being wild then the natural craftiness of a 4 1/2 year old buck.
The fence is not for the wild you want to keep in but rather for the part of the wild that you want to keep out.....and yet what you keep in is effecting what is kept out, thus this stance.
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  #89  
Old 02-27-2012, 11:12 AM
Bigwheel Bigwheel is offline
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Membership cancelled.
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  #90  
Old 02-27-2012, 01:27 PM
sandbur sandbur is offline
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Originally Posted by Bigwheel View Post
Membership cancelled.

Just to show that there are some of us on the other side of the issue and to show our support for the QDMA leadership, this is the main reason I WILL renew my membership for 2013!

Other actions have caused me to question QDMA, but they took a stand that needs to be taken for the health of our herds.
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  #91  
Old 02-27-2012, 01:42 PM
bigeight bigeight is offline
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Originally Posted by Bigwheel View Post
Membership cancelled.

Out of curiosity, will you remain on the QDMA forum and take advantage of this great site supplied by the QDMA? Or does their stance only affect your membership?

Just wondering, not picking a fight
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  #92  
Old 02-27-2012, 02:53 PM
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I will renew my membership and I will stay on the forum. I learned a long time ago from other organizations I was a member of, that these tempests in a teapot have no lasting effect on membership.
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  #93  
Old 02-27-2012, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MDuffy View Post
Seriously??? What if your farmer/landowner neighbor wanted to kill 50 bucks a year?

Matt, I would not be at all happy if a guiding business started up next to me but it's Your right to do so. How many extra bucks are taken each year over what a family would take?
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  #94  
Old 02-27-2012, 03:11 PM
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Terry S. Singeltary Sr. Terry S. Singeltary Sr. is offline
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Exclamation North America TSE Prion Update CWD CWD March report 2012

Greetings QDMA et al,




I send this new recent study by CDC on CWD out March 2012. you should read this very carefully. I don’t care what or who you eat. I am pro-hunter and I am a carnivore. I am however, anti-stupid, and I am a good steward of the hunt and woods. I send this data in good faith, for you to use as you wish.


kind regards,
terry




please see report out in March 2012 on cwd by the CDC. I have been hounding them for years, especially since December of 2011 about the 80% CWD infection rate at one game farm in Wisconsin.





SEE CWD MAP, RELATE TO DATES OF GAME FARM INFECTION, TO DATE OF INFECTION RATE IN WILD, SURROUNDING SAID INFECTED GAME FARMS. daaa.




http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/3/11-0685-f1.htm






*** Chronic Wasting Disease CWD CDC REPORT MARCH 2012 ***


Saturday, February 18, 2012


Occurrence, Transmission, and Zoonotic Potential of Chronic Wasting Disease


CDC Volume 18, Number 3—March 2012



http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/ahead-of-pr...85_article.htm








CWD Zoonotic Potential, Species Barriers, and Strains



Current Understanding of the CWD Species Barrier




Strong evidence of zoonotic transmission of BSE to humans has led to concerns about zoonotic transmission of CWD (2,3). As noted above, CWD prions are present nearly ubiquitously throughout diseased hosts, including in muscle, fat, various glands and organs, antler velvet, and peripheral and CNS tissue (2,14,15). Thus, the potential for human exposure to CWD by handling and consumption of infectious cervid material is substantial and increases with increased disease prevalence.




Interspecies transmission of prion diseases often yields a species-barrier effect, in which transmission is less efficient compared with intraspecies transmission, as shown by lower attack rates and extended incubation periods (3,28). The species barrier effect is associated with minor differences in PrPc sequence and structure between the host and target species (3). Prion strain (discussed below) and route of inoculation also affect the species barrier (3,28). For instance, interspecies transmission by intracerebral inoculation is often possible but oral challenge is completely ineffective (29).







Most epidemiologic studies and experimental work have suggested that the potential for CWD transmission to humans is low, and such transmission has not been documented through ongoing surveillance (2,3). In vitro prion replication assays report a relatively low efficiency of CWD PrPSc-directed conversion of human PrPc to PrPSc (30), and transgenic mice overexpressing human PrPc are resistant to CWD infection (31); these findings indicate low zoonotic potential. However, squirrel monkeys are susceptible to CWD by intracerebral and oral inoculation (32). Cynomolgus macaques, which are evolutionarily closer to humans than squirrel monkeys, are resistant to CWD infection (32). Regardless, the finding that a primate is orally susceptible to CWD is of concern.







Interspecies transmission of CWD to noncervids has not been observed under natural conditions. CWD infection of carcass scavengers such as raccoons, opossums, and coyotes was not observed in a recent study in Wisconsin (22). In addition, natural transmission of CWD to cattle has not been observed in experimentally controlled natural exposure studies or targeted surveillance (2). However, CWD has been experimentally transmitted to cattle, sheep, goats, mink, ferrets, voles, and mice by intracerebral inoculation (2,29,33).







CWD is likely transmitted among mule, white-tailed deer, and elk without a major species barrier (1), and other members of the cervid family, including reindeer, caribou, and other species of deer worldwide, may be vulnerable to CWD infection. Black-tailed deer (a subspecies of mule deer) and European red deer (Cervus elaphus) are susceptible to CWD by natural routes of infection (1,34). Fallow deer (Dama dama) are susceptible to CWD by intracerebral inoculation (35). Continued study of CWD susceptibility in other cervids is of considerable interest.







Reasons for Caution





There are several reasons for caution with respect to zoonotic and interspecies CWD transmission. First, there is strong evidence that distinct CWD strains exist (36). Prion strains are distinguished by varied incubation periods, clinical symptoms, PrPSc conformations, and CNS PrPSc depositions (3,32). Strains have been identified in other natural prion diseases, including scrapie, BSE, and CJD (3). Intraspecies and interspecies transmission of prions from CWD-positive deer and elk isolates resulted in identification of >2 strains of CWD in rodent models (36), indicating that CWD strains likely exist in cervids. However, nothing is currently known about natural distribution and prevalence of CWD strains. Currently, host range and pathogenicity vary with prion strain (28,37). Therefore, zoonotic potential of CWD may also vary with CWD strain. In addition, diversity in host (cervid) and target (e.g., human) genotypes further complicates definitive findings of zoonotic and interspecies transmission potentials of CWD.








Intraspecies and interspecies passage of the CWD agent may also increase the risk for zoonotic CWD transmission. The CWD prion agent is undergoing serial passage naturally as the disease continues to emerge. In vitro and in vivo intraspecies transmission of the CWD agent yields PrPSc with an increased capacity to convert human PrPc to PrPSc (30). Interspecies prion transmission can alter CWD host range (38) and yield multiple novel prion strains (3,28). The potential for interspecies CWD transmission (by cohabitating mammals) will only increase as the disease spreads and CWD prions continue to be shed into the environment. This environmental passage itself may alter CWD prions or exert selective pressures on CWD strain mixtures by interactions with soil, which are known to vary with prion strain (25), or exposure to environmental or gut degradation.







Given that prion disease in humans can be difficult to diagnose and the asymptomatic incubation period can last decades, continued research, epidemiologic surveillance, and caution in handling risky material remain prudent as CWD continues to spread and the opportunity for interspecies transmission increases. Otherwise, similar to what occurred in the United Kingdom after detection of variant CJD and its subsequent link to BSE, years of prevention could be lost if zoonotic transmission of CWD is subsequently identified,




SNIP...






*** Chronic Wasting Disease CWD CDC REPORT MARCH 2012 ***


Saturday, February 18, 2012


Occurrence, Transmission, and Zoonotic Potential of Chronic Wasting Disease


CDC Volume 18, Number 3—March 2012



http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/ahead-of-pr...85_article.htm






see much more here ;




http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...-zoonotic.html






Tuesday, February 14, 2012


White House budget proposes cuts to ag programs including TSE PRION disease aka mad cow type disease


http://transmissiblespongiformenceph...uts-to-ag.html





50 GAME FARMS IN USA INFECTED WITH CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE CWD




2012


Tuesday, December 20, 2011


CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE CWD WISCONSIN Almond Deer (Buckhorn Flats) Farm Update DECEMBER 2011



> > > The CWD infection rate was nearly 80%, the highest ever in a North American captive herd.


Despite the five year premise plan and site decontamination, The WI DNR has concerns over the bioavailability of infectious prions at this site to wild white-tail deer should these fences be removed. Current research indicates that prions can persist in soil for a minimum of 3 years.


However, Georgsson et al. (2006) concluded that prions that produced scrapie disease in sheep remained bioavailable and infectious for at least 16 years in natural Icelandic environments, most likely in contaminated soil.


Additionally, the authors reported that from 1978-2004, scrapie recurred on 33 sheep farms, of which 9 recurrences occurred 14-21 years after initial culling and subsequent restocking efforts; these findings further emphasize the effect of environmental contamination on sustaining TSE infectivity and that long-term persistence of prions in soils may be substantially greater than previously thought. < < <




http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/2011/d.../12-11-2b2.pdf






SNIP...SEE FULL TEXT ;



http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...wisconsin.html





Thursday, February 09, 2012


50 GAME FARMS IN USA INFECTED WITH CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...-infected.html





Saturday, February 04, 2012


Wisconsin 16 age limit on testing dead deer Game Farm CWD Testing Protocol Needs To Be Revised


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...ting-dead.html





Tuesday, February 14, 2012


White House budget proposes cuts to ag programs including TSE PRION disease aka mad cow type disease


http://transmissiblespongiformenceph...uts-to-ag.html





TSS
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  #95  
Old 02-27-2012, 04:20 PM
MDuffy's Avatar
MDuffy MDuffy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry S. Singeltary Sr. View Post


I send this new recent study by CDC on CWD out March 2012. you should read this very carefully. I don’t care what or who you eat. I am pro-hunter and I am a carnivore. I am however, anti-stupid, and I am a good steward of the hunt and woods. I send this data in good faith, for you to use as you wish.


kind regards,
terry




please see report out in March 2012 on cwd by the CDC. I have been hounding them for years, especially since December of 2011 about the 80% CWD infection rate at one game farm in Wisconsin.





SEE CWD MAP, RELATE TO DATES OF GAME FARM INFECTION, TO DATE OF INFECTION RATE IN WILD, SURROUNDING SAID INFECTED GAME FARMS. daaa.




http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/3/11-0685-f1.htm






*** Chronic Wasting Disease CWD CDC REPORT MARCH 2012 ***


Saturday, February 18, 2012


Occurrence, Transmission, and Zoonotic Potential of Chronic Wasting Disease


CDC Volume 18, Number 3—March 2012



http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/ahead-of-pr...85_article.htm








CWD Zoonotic Potential, Species Barriers, and Strains



Current Understanding of the CWD Species Barrier




Strong evidence of zoonotic transmission of BSE to humans has led to concerns about zoonotic transmission of CWD (2,3). As noted above, CWD prions are present nearly ubiquitously throughout diseased hosts, including in muscle, fat, various glands and organs, antler velvet, and peripheral and CNS tissue (2,14,15). Thus, the potential for human exposure to CWD by handling and consumption of infectious cervid material is substantial and increases with increased disease prevalence.




Interspecies transmission of prion diseases often yields a species-barrier effect, in which transmission is less efficient compared with intraspecies transmission, as shown by lower attack rates and extended incubation periods (3,28). The species barrier effect is associated with minor differences in PrPc sequence and structure between the host and target species (3). Prion strain (discussed below) and route of inoculation also affect the species barrier (3,28). For instance, interspecies transmission by intracerebral inoculation is often possible but oral challenge is completely ineffective (29).







Most epidemiologic studies and experimental work have suggested that the potential for CWD transmission to humans is low, and such transmission has not been documented through ongoing surveillance (2,3). In vitro prion replication assays report a relatively low efficiency of CWD PrPSc-directed conversion of human PrPc to PrPSc (30), and transgenic mice overexpressing human PrPc are resistant to CWD infection (31); these findings indicate low zoonotic potential. However, squirrel monkeys are susceptible to CWD by intracerebral and oral inoculation (32). Cynomolgus macaques, which are evolutionarily closer to humans than squirrel monkeys, are resistant to CWD infection (32). Regardless, the finding that a primate is orally susceptible to CWD is of concern.







Interspecies transmission of CWD to noncervids has not been observed under natural conditions. CWD infection of carcass scavengers such as raccoons, opossums, and coyotes was not observed in a recent study in Wisconsin (22). In addition, natural transmission of CWD to cattle has not been observed in experimentally controlled natural exposure studies or targeted surveillance (2). However, CWD has been experimentally transmitted to cattle, sheep, goats, mink, ferrets, voles, and mice by intracerebral inoculation (2,29,33).







CWD is likely transmitted among mule, white-tailed deer, and elk without a major species barrier (1), and other members of the cervid family, including reindeer, caribou, and other species of deer worldwide, may be vulnerable to CWD infection. Black-tailed deer (a subspecies of mule deer) and European red deer (Cervus elaphus) are susceptible to CWD by natural routes of infection (1,34). Fallow deer (Dama dama) are susceptible to CWD by intracerebral inoculation (35). Continued study of CWD susceptibility in other cervids is of considerable interest.







Reasons for Caution





There are several reasons for caution with respect to zoonotic and interspecies CWD transmission. First, there is strong evidence that distinct CWD strains exist (36). Prion strains are distinguished by varied incubation periods, clinical symptoms, PrPSc conformations, and CNS PrPSc depositions (3,32). Strains have been identified in other natural prion diseases, including scrapie, BSE, and CJD (3). Intraspecies and interspecies transmission of prions from CWD-positive deer and elk isolates resulted in identification of >2 strains of CWD in rodent models (36), indicating that CWD strains likely exist in cervids. However, nothing is currently known about natural distribution and prevalence of CWD strains. Currently, host range and pathogenicity vary with prion strain (28,37). Therefore, zoonotic potential of CWD may also vary with CWD strain. In addition, diversity in host (cervid) and target (e.g., human) genotypes further complicates definitive findings of zoonotic and interspecies transmission potentials of CWD.








Intraspecies and interspecies passage of the CWD agent may also increase the risk for zoonotic CWD transmission. The CWD prion agent is undergoing serial passage naturally as the disease continues to emerge. In vitro and in vivo intraspecies transmission of the CWD agent yields PrPSc with an increased capacity to convert human PrPc to PrPSc (30). Interspecies prion transmission can alter CWD host range (38) and yield multiple novel prion strains (3,28). The potential for interspecies CWD transmission (by cohabitating mammals) will only increase as the disease spreads and CWD prions continue to be shed into the environment. This environmental passage itself may alter CWD prions or exert selective pressures on CWD strain mixtures by interactions with soil, which are known to vary with prion strain (25), or exposure to environmental or gut degradation.







Given that prion disease in humans can be difficult to diagnose and the asymptomatic incubation period can last decades, continued research, epidemiologic surveillance, and caution in handling risky material remain prudent as CWD continues to spread and the opportunity for interspecies transmission increases. Otherwise, similar to what occurred in the United Kingdom after detection of variant CJD and its subsequent link to BSE, years of prevention could be lost if zoonotic transmission of CWD is subsequently identified,




SNIP...






*** Chronic Wasting Disease CWD CDC REPORT MARCH 2012 ***


Saturday, February 18, 2012


Occurrence, Transmission, and Zoonotic Potential of Chronic Wasting Disease


CDC Volume 18, Number 3—March 2012



http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/ahead-of-pr...85_article.htm






see much more here ;




http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...-zoonotic.html






Tuesday, February 14, 2012


White House budget proposes cuts to ag programs including TSE PRION disease aka mad cow type disease


http://transmissiblespongiformenceph...uts-to-ag.html





50 GAME FARMS IN USA INFECTED WITH CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE CWD




2012


Tuesday, December 20, 2011


CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE CWD WISCONSIN Almond Deer (Buckhorn Flats) Farm Update DECEMBER 2011



> > > The CWD infection rate was nearly 80%, the highest ever in a North American captive herd.


Despite the five year premise plan and site decontamination, The WI DNR has concerns over the bioavailability of infectious prions at this site to wild white-tail deer should these fences be removed. Current research indicates that prions can persist in soil for a minimum of 3 years.


However, Georgsson et al. (2006) concluded that prions that produced scrapie disease in sheep remained bioavailable and infectious for at least 16 years in natural Icelandic environments, most likely in contaminated soil.


Additionally, the authors reported that from 1978-2004, scrapie recurred on 33 sheep farms, of which 9 recurrences occurred 14-21 years after initial culling and subsequent restocking efforts; these findings further emphasize the effect of environmental contamination on sustaining TSE infectivity and that long-term persistence of prions in soils may be substantially greater than previously thought. < < <




http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/2011/d.../12-11-2b2.pdf






SNIP...SEE FULL TEXT ;



http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...wisconsin.html





Thursday, February 09, 2012


50 GAME FARMS IN USA INFECTED WITH CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...-infected.html





Saturday, February 04, 2012


Wisconsin 16 age limit on testing dead deer Game Farm CWD Testing Protocol Needs To Be Revised


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...ting-dead.html





Tuesday, February 14, 2012


White House budget proposes cuts to ag programs including TSE PRION disease aka mad cow type disease


http://transmissiblespongiformenceph...uts-to-ag.html





TSS

Tried to find a 'over my head' emoticon.....
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  #96  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:23 PM
bruiser73 bruiser73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maya View Post
Please troll! Everywhere CWD rears it's ugly head there is a high fence somewhere in the background. I really don't care if you think you need a high fence to kill a deer, but the facts are clear. They are causing states millions of dollars around the country to fight CWD and hampering hunting for many hunters across the country. Take NY for example, no CWD for hundreds if not thousands of miles, a deer tests posotive inside a fence and low and behold one outside the fence. I suppose a deer with CWD just ran there from some other state up next to the fence and infected the deer inside huh?

This is a bold statement considering Texas, which is mostly privately owned and has millions of acres of high fenced properties as well as free range properties, allows baiting, supplemental feed and NO CWD. This has been the case for decades. We pretty much started the deer breeding craze and we still don't have an issue. And the ranches are getting more popularity in Oklahoma and Louisiana.
I am not a breeder, a hunting land owner or a high fence hunter. I lease or hunt on public lands. Even if I had land I wouldn't high fence it or start a breeding operation. But this is a big business and I've been on several ranches that are high fenced and have breeding programs. The funny thing is most of these places don't even make a profit. They are successful business people in other fields and any money they do make from the breeding may cover some cost. They don't do it because they have to, they do it because they want to and thats just fine with me.
I would never tell one of these owners that they shouldn't be doing what they are doing and not for one minute do I envy or persecute them. If they have the means to do this with their own money then so be it. Just like I can do whatever I want to do with my money. If the neighbor is shooting up the deer behind his high fence then thats his problem, thankfully, because of his fence it does not affect me.
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  #97  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:28 PM
MDuffy's Avatar
MDuffy MDuffy is offline
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Location: Gallatin County, IL USDA Zone 6b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruiser73 View Post
If they have the means to do this with their own money then so be it.

Even if science can show that what they are doing is a detriment to the herd outside the fence??

I'm not saying science has shown that, just asking.
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  #98  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:32 PM
Terry S. Singeltary Sr.'s Avatar
Terry S. Singeltary Sr. Terry S. Singeltary Sr. is offline
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Default it's not rocket science here

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDuffy View Post
Tried to find a 'over my head' emoticon.....





hello there mduffy,


it shouldn't be over your head. this is not rocket science.




snip...



Long-term effects of CWD on cervid populations and ecosystems remain unclear as the disease continues to spread and prevalence increases. In captive herds, CWD might persist at high levels and lead to complete herd destruction in the absence of human culling. Epidemiologic modeling suggests the disease could have severe effects on free-ranging deer populations, depending on hunting policies and environmental persistence (8,9). CWD has been associated with large decreases in free-ranging mule deer populations in an area of high CWD prevalence (Boulder, Colorado, USA) (5). In addition, CWD-infected deer are selectively preyed upon by mountain lions (5), and may also be more vulnerable to vehicle collisions (10). Long-term effects of the disease may vary considerably geographically, not only because of local hunting policies, predator populations, and human density (e.g., vehicular collisions) but also because of local environmental factors such as soil type (11) and local cervid population factors, such as genetics and movement patterns (S.E. Saunders, unpub. data).




snip...







http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/ahead-of-pr...85_article.htm







SEE CWD MAP, RELATE TO DATES OF GAME FARM INFECTION, TO DATE OF INFECTION RATE IN WILD, SURROUNDING SAID INFECTED GAME FARMS. Light gray shading, current CWD in free-ranging populations; dark gray shading, known distribution of CWD in free-ranging populations before 2000. yellow dots depopulated cwd infected captive facilities, red dots current cwd infected captive facilities. then look at the year of 1st documented CWD from both. which came first, the horse or the cart ???




http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/3/11-0685-f1.htm






Friday, February 25, 2011



Soil clay content underlies prion infection odds



http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...ies-prion.html





we must not pit hunter against hunter here, and that is not what i am trying to do. the business end of this mess, the people don't care about science. they make the hunters not care, via their junk science, and most hunters not being aware of the science. i assure you, these big farms, they know the science. they just don't care. all they are worried about is the bottom $$$ i have followed this daily, for 15 years. same thing happened with BSE aka mad cow disease. if industry would have stayed out of the scientific policy making, countries around the globe, espcially the USA and North America, would not have gotten in the mess they did, and USA still in. the OIE and the USDA sold their souls to the devil and rolled the dice. they will pay the ultimate price in the long run $ and God! i am no preacher, and i am no scientist, i am only a layperson. i am the messenger. you can take all this with how ever many grains of salt you wish, but i urge you to take it seriously. read, and read some more, and understand this science. these TSE prion diseases are not going anywhere, they are only mutating and becoming more virulent...




all you folks screaming for less government in your life. well, be careful what you wish for ;



Tuesday, February 14, 2012


White House budget proposes cuts to ag programs including TSE PRION disease aka mad cow type disease


http://transmissiblespongiformenceph...uts-to-ag.html








Friday, February 03, 2012


Wisconsin Farm-Raised Deer Farms and CWD there from 2012 report Singeltary et al


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...farms-and.html





Saturday, February 04, 2012


Wisconsin 16 age limit on testing dead deer Game Farm CWD Testing Protocol Needs To Be Revised


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...ting-dead.html





Thursday, February 09, 2012


Colorado Farm-Raised Deer Farms and CWD there from 2012 report Singeltary et al


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...s-and-cwd.html





Monday, February 13, 2012


Stop White-tailed Deer Farming from Destroying Tennessee’s Priceless Wild Deer Herd oppose HB3164


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...ming-from.html





Tuesday, February 14, 2012


Oppose Indiana House Bill 1265 game farming cervids


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...1265-game.html




Wednesday, February 15, 2012


West Virginia Deer Farming Bill backed by deer farmers advances, why ? BE WARNED CWD


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...ll-backed.html








*** Spraker suggested an interesting explanation for the occurrence of CWD. The deer pens at the Foot Hills Campus were built some 30-40 years ago by a Dr. Bob Davis. At or abut that time, allegedly, some scrapie work was conducted at this site. When deer were introduced to the pens they occupied ground that had previously been occupied by sheep.



(PLEASE NOTE SOME OF THESE OLD UK GOVERNMENT FILE URLS ARE SLOW TO OPEN, AND SOMETIMES YOU MAY HAVE TO CLICK ON MULTIPLE TIMES, PLEASE BE PATIENT, ANY PROBLEMS PLEASE WRITE ME PRIVATELY, AND I WILL TRY AND FIX OR SEND YOU OLD PDF FILE...TSS)




http://collections.europarchive.org/...m11b/tab01.pdf







Sunday, January 22, 2012


Chronic Wasting Disease CWD cervids interspecies transmission


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...d-cervids.html





Thursday, January 26, 2012

The Risk of Prion Zoonoses

Science 27 January 2012: Vol. 335 no. 6067 pp. 411-413 DOI: 10.1126/science.1218167


http://transmissiblespongiformenceph...-zoonoses.html





Thursday, January 26, 2012

Facilitated Cross-Species Transmission of Prions in Extraneural Tissue

Science 27 January 2012: Vol. 335 no. 6067 pp. 472-475 DOI: 10.1126/science.1215659


http://transmissiblespongiformenceph...nsmission.html





like i said. i don't care what you eat, or hunt. i am a carnivore, i am pro-hunter, always have been. bbbut, the exposure of CWD to humans is great, along with BSE, and Scrapie here in North America. medical, surgical, dental, tissue donor, blood recipients, all of these folks have been exposed here in the USA, more so than that of the UK in my opinion, to a wide range of different TSE prion disease. friendly fire there from folks, that involves all of us folks, whether you like it or not. i hope some of you find interest in this science, and hopefully, you can now make your decissions bases on more sound science. ...



with kind regards,
i am sincerely,


terry







From: x - DNR
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 11:16 AM
To: Terry S. Singeltary Sr.
Subject: March 2012 CDC CWD Report - Singeltary

Your email has been distributed to all Natural Resources Board members and Department staff for their consideration. On behalf of the Board, I would like to thank you for forwarding information on the March 2012 Chronic Wasting Disease Report.



Please feel free to contact the Natural Resources Board in the future with additional comments or concerns.



Best regards,



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


=====================



From:
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:09 AM
To: Terry S. Singeltary Sr.
Subject: RE: oppose HB3164, game farms are nothing more than a petri dish for infectious disease such as Chronic Wasting Disease CWD

I am opposing HB3164. Thank you.


======================




end...tss
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  #99  
Old 02-27-2012, 06:17 PM
Munsterlndr's Avatar
Munsterlndr Munsterlndr is offline
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Posts: 1,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDuffy View Post
Even if science can show that what they are doing is a detriment to the herd outside the fence??

I'm not saying science has shown that, just asking.

If science can show that some of of the current practices supported or promoted by QDMA might be detrimental to the herd, would you stop doing them?

Just asking hypothetically ........
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  #100  
Old 02-27-2012, 06:22 PM
Terry S. Singeltary Sr.'s Avatar
Terry S. Singeltary Sr. Terry S. Singeltary Sr. is offline
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Posts: 913
Default TEXAS NO CWD ??? wonder why $

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruiser73 View Post
This is a bold statement considering Texas, which is mostly privately owned and has millions of acres of high fenced properties as well as free range properties, allows baiting, supplemental feed and NO CWD. This has been the case for decades. We pretty much started the deer breeding craze and we still don't have an issue. And the ranches are getting more popularity in Oklahoma and Louisiana.
I am not a breeder, a hunting land owner or a high fence hunter. I lease or hunt on public lands. Even if I had land I wouldn't high fence it or start a breeding operation. But this is a big business and I've been on several ranches that are high fenced and have breeding programs. The funny thing is most of these places don't even make a profit. They are successful business people in other fields and any money they do make from the breeding may cover some cost. They don't do it because they have to, they do it because they want to and thats just fine with me.
I would never tell one of these owners that they shouldn't be doing what they are doing and not for one minute do I envy or persecute them. If they have the means to do this with their own money then so be it. Just like I can do whatever I want to do with my money. If the neighbor is shooting up the deer behind his high fence then thats his problem, thankfully, because of his fence it does not affect me.




in my opnion, Texas already has CWD. the way they test, no regulations as you mentioned on baiting and feeding, no way they would ever find it. like the mad cows in Texas and testing there from. the first stumbling and stagering highly suspect mad cow they got away with by rendering without testing, the second one, after an act of congress and the Honorable Phyllis Fong of the OIG, and a few more of us, they finally retested that cow, and confirmed it, after 7+ months, of a 48 hour turnaround, supposedly.

fact is, CWD has been within walking distance of Texas border for years, and the testing in numbers is way lacking, and in location, no where near where any cwd deer would cross. also, the rules on CWD testing and age there from on game farms is set up not to find CWD. in my opinion.


also, there not giving away those Boone-Crocket type straw bred bucks either, i assure you. anyone that thinks these big fame farms in Texas are broke, think again. not only those big straw bred bucks, but the products there from i.e. antler velvet is another product that can spread CWD, and expose humans to the TSE Prion, because antler velvet is NOT testing for CWD, and antler velvet can contain CWD (see cdc report on antler velvet below). also, URINE, another source for CWD. don't game farms sell that urine for hunters ??? urine that can carry the CWD agent and be spread via the environment, and humans (please see source reference below).





price of poker goes up for those Boone-Crocket type straw bred bucks. see ;






Saturday, February 11, 2012


PrPSc Detection and Infectivity in Semen from Scrapie-Infected Sheep



http://transmissiblespongiformenceph...tivity-in.html






Africa in Texas


January 29, 2012 7:09 PM


Can hunting endangered animals save the species?


http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...in;contentBody



products from these game farms are nothing more than vehicles for transmission of CWD, products that are NOT tested for CWD.

the use of URINE, 100% deer or elk urine, untested for CWD, is as about as stupid as one could do for the deer and elk herds. but, it’s big business $$$ and that’s all that matters to the industry.

the use of antler velvet in dietary supplements for humans is like asking for transmission to humans i.e. CJD.

the use of semen for agriculture ?



A. IT MAKES MONEY !

B. the myth that it makes you a better hunter

C. URINE PRODUCTS HAVE THE HIGH LIKELIHOOD, BASED ON SCIENCE, TO SPREAD CWD.

D. SEMEN and CWD ?



look, the DNR et al are not out to get anyone, when it comes to CWD and TSE prion disease. they are trying to protect your deer and elk herds. the DNR is not your enemy here, the game farm industry is. please I urge all of you to look at the science. I have no dog in this hunt. however, CWD, and friendly fire there from, that my friends involves all of us. you, me, our children, family, friends. I assure you of that. ...



Thursday, June 09, 2011

Detection of CWD prions in salivary, urinary, and intestinal tissues of deer: potential mechanisms of prion shedding and transmission

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...-salivary.html




Tuesday, September 02, 2008

Detection of infectious prions in urine (Soto et al Available online 13 August 2008.)

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...-in-urine.html


Thursday, February 17, 2011

Environmental Sources of Scrapie Prions

http://scrapie-usa.blogspot.com/2011...ie-prions.html





Aerosols An underestimated vehicle for transmission of prion diseases?

Aerosols

An underestimated vehicle for transmission of prion diseases?

Lothar Stitz1,* and Adriano Aguzzi2

1Institute of Immunology; Friedrich-Loeffler-Institut; Tübingen, Germany; 2Institute of Neuropathology; University of Zürich; Zürich, Switzerland



http://www.plospathogens.org/article...l.ppat.1001257





Thursday, December 29, 2011

Aerosols An underestimated vehicle for transmission of prion diseases?

PRION www.landesbioscience.com


please see more on Aerosols and TSE prion disease here ;



http://transmissiblespongiformenceph...hicle-for.html





see the CDC warning about antler velvet and the risk of cwd and cjd there from ;



Volume 15, Number 5—May 2009

Research

Chronic Wasting Disease Prions in Elk Antler Velvet




CDC WARNING ANTLER VELVET CWD CJD

Thursday, March 19, 2009

Chronic Wasting Disease Prions in Elk Antler Velvet (Nutritional Supplements and CJD)


http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/15/...58_article.htm





see full text and more ;




http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...ns-in-elk.html





Sunday, October 04, 2009


CWD NEW MEXICO SPREADING SOUTH TO TEXAS 2009


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...-to-texas.html




Subject: CWD NEW MEXICO RECORDS IT'S 19 CASE (near Texas border again)



Date: August 29, 2007 at 6:39 pm PST



http://www.biggamehunt.net/forum/cwd...s-border-again





Saturday, February 04, 2012


Wisconsin 16 age limit on testing dead deer Game Farm CWD Testing Protocol Needs To Be Revised


http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogs...ting-dead.html







Monday, October 10, 2011

EFSA Journal 2011 The European Response to BSE: A Success Story

snip...

EFSA and the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC) recently delivered a scientific opinion on any possible epidemiological or molecular association between TSEs in animals and humans (EFSA Panel on Biological Hazards (BIOHAZ) and ECDC, 2011). This opinion confirmed Classical BSE prions as the only TSE agents demonstrated to be zoonotic so far but the possibility that a small proportion of human cases so far classified as "sporadic" CJD are of zoonotic origin could not be excluded. Moreover, transmission experiments to non-human primates suggest that some TSE agents in addition to Classical BSE prions in cattle (namely L-type Atypical BSE, Classical BSE in sheep, transmissible mink encephalopathy (TME) and chronic wasting disease (CWD) agents) might have zoonotic potential.

snip...




http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajou...e991.htm?emt=1




http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/doc/e991.pdf




see follow-up here about North America BSE Mad Cow TSE prion risk factors, and the ever emerging strains of Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy in many species here in the USA, including humans ;




http://transmissiblespongiformenceph...sponse-to.html




kind regards,
terry
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