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Old 02-10-2012, 04:24 PM
Savannah Savannah is offline
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Default New taxes in NY for my property, up 150%!

What a great feeling when you open your mail and there is a letter from your vacation property municipality that there is a new assesment and your taxes are going up 150%! I live in Buffalo NY, but have hunting property in the Town of Freedom, NY. Like other hunters, I just have vacant land with a trailer on it, and some utilities. I called (like many others will be) and the just of it is land taxes used to be a 4% of their value for tax purposes. I guess to encourage farming and such. Well that all changed for 2012 and now your land value for tax purposes is now 100% market value. Nothing like this happening 6 years after owning the land. You try and work hard (blue collar here) to have a little piece of heaven and now have to seriously think about whether its financially worth it, the hours worked for all the taxes paid.
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Old 02-10-2012, 05:11 PM
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Ny, CAl.,Greece........Someone has to pay for the entitlement programs.

"Socialism is great till You run out of other peoples money"

Margaret Thatcher 1984.......................................Love it.
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:43 PM
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unreal, and your quote is right on.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:22 PM
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You must be one of the rich that Obama has been looking to go after ... about time he found you and your ilk ...

Welcome to the new world order ... work hard so two people can live off your taxes ...
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:29 PM
THOMAS9N THOMAS9N is offline
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i put my place in wildlife habitat area and pay 1 dallor an acre.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:33 PM
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I live in New York as well. Sales of property here over the last ten years has gone from a few hundred an acre to 3,000 for good tillable land. If you went up on assessment on vacant land that much it sounds like you are not listed as agricultural property. Ag values in our area are assessed at roughly between 400 and 900 an acre depending on the soil category and use of the land.

You can find the rules for including land in Ag program on the internet. Just do a search. We have until March 1 to fill out the AG exemption form if our land is eligible. If not we have until March 1 to make it eligible in order to include it in this assessment. Our assessor provides the form to us if we ask. If you need any more info on this just let me know.

To help with your search it is form #RP-305-r (AGRICULTURAL ASSESSMENT RENEWAL APPLICATION)
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:37 PM
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I feel your pain, my taxes on my steuben county property went up quite a bit this year too.

I'm not quite to the point of selling but it sure does suck!
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:53 PM
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Thats exactly why I sold my land in NY and moved out here almost 2 years ago. They sent me a note to inform me my taxes were gonna go from $2400.00 a year to $8400.00 a year on 200 acres of vacant land with no bldgs. Best move I ever made. At times I miss the land but it just wasn't worth it. I have made plenty of friends and can hunt their land for free. Land is very expensive out here but taxes are pretty cheap.
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Old 02-10-2012, 08:02 PM
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Blue state Red State and it will get worse....

I can't speak for NY but my Father in Law owns land in NJ and the only way he keeps it is because he is under farmland/woodland Assessment. Much Lower taxes.

Requirements are a licensed forester putting together a timber plan and actively pursuing the plan. Which is not killer when you're waiting for a 4" white oak to become a tiber log.

There is a small earning off the land requirement but it's not to hard to sell your neighbor firewood and then buy some from him so you both meet the requirement. (just sayin)

I think NY has something similar. You need the advice of a Licensed NY private forester. Your local tax accessor is not going to volunteer this info to you.

Here is some info on NY
http://www.tax.ny.gov/research/prope...g_overview.htm

Also

From: http://www.farmland.org/resources/pu...ownerGuide.pdf

"Forest Land Exemption
To encourage the long-term ownership of woodlands, Section 480-a of the Real Property Tax Law allows eligible owners of forest land to receive reductions in tax assessment. Landowners must own a minimum of 50 acres of contiguous forestland and be willing to commit the land to forest crop production. In addition, landowners must follow forest management plans that have been prepared by qualified foresters and approved by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC). Owners of tracts certified by DEC must apply annually to their local assessors for the exemption. Landowners must comply with the program for nine years following the last year of commitment. Penalties may be imposed if a landowner fails to follow the approved management program or converts the land to a use that prevents continued forest crop production.
For more information about the forest land exemption, contact the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, Division of Lands and Forests, Bureau of Private Land Services."
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Old 02-10-2012, 08:41 PM
dogghr dogghr is offline
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Yep mine went up nearly 25% in 2011. I feel your pain. The $/pound deer meat keeps rising, especially since I seem to let most walk these days.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:38 PM
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bill b, your father in law doesn't need help protecting those trees from deer does he?
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:42 PM
Savannah Savannah is offline
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Hey chainsaw, I looked into the ag thing a little and my assesor said I don't have ag or vacant land because I have some utilities. I have electric and a well so it is being "improved" land, and taxed as such. Sound correct or bs? God I am so po w ny state. I love hunting and the time we spend on our land but my god each deer harvested would proportionately be worth about 5k!
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:18 PM
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Sounds like they finally got you. I have owned 50 acres of unimproved land in sw ny for 11 years. They got me 9 years ago. Taxes went from $400 a year to $1800. Last year i did get it down to $1300 with one phone call to the assessors office. The old assessor had me down as an improved lot which adds $9000 to the assessed value of the property. The new assesor said if i do not have ALL utilities it is not an impoved lot. Just something you may want to look into. I went every year to dispute my taxes and got no where until a new assessor took office.
In my area of ny property sells fairly cheap but what you save on the purchase price you pay in taxes. I thought about selling but i can't buy 50 acres in PA within 20 mins of my house for less than $150000. My neighbor in ny pays $4000 per year on 150 acres of unimproved land. The neighbors land almost gets sold for back taxes every year. I guess you have to pay to play.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikmaze View Post
bill b, your father in law doesn't need help protecting those trees from deer does he?
Wouldn't be worth it....
He hasn't met a buck he won't shoot

He's 68 and there is no logical way to change his mind

Great place for my son to shoot does during Christmas break though, there like ants.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:35 PM
Massey135 Massey135 is online now
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school administrators need to retire too, you know. If you own land in this country, you are considered the 1%, unless you have some sort of lobby on your side Ie.. corn farmers, cow farmers, etc.. Just owning recreational land, and especially "improved" recreational land, will kill you, tax wise. It's only going to get worse, my friend, not better. That is, until you get rid of every single career politician in your state.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:43 PM
Savannah Savannah is offline
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skillet, I think thats where I went wrong. we bought the land and just had the trailer up there. But my wife really enjoys the great outdoors(she hunts too) and I have two little kids. The more utilities we put in, the more time we could spend up there at a time. So we put in a well for water and electric, and then came the septic. Just when I think life is good and I have a little taste of paradise I get my letter in the mail. In-between the lines it read like this, " dear landowner, it looks like you have done a few things to your property to really enjoy it. There are a lot of people in NY that refuse to work so we would like to squeeze every penny out of you that we can. We have paid an asesor to come out and tell us exactly what your land is worth now. It did cost us money, but we figure we will make it up in the next few years of taxing you. Please continue to make improvements, we will send someone by from time to time to see them and raise your taxes accordingly." The greatest thing is this "vacation" property is an hr from my house where I work, have my full-time house and other significant tax bill. I dont make enough to pay someone to find loop-holes for me, so I work real hard to have just a little extra. I love this class. Ok, im done complaining. For now. Oh one last tid-bit, if I want to dispute it all I have to do is take a day off from work to go down there and see someone that isnt going to change anything. The town of Freedom's assesor's office is open every wednesday from 1-3pm. Seriously.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:54 PM
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I don't know about the having utilities making land ineligible for Ag classification. That would make most farms ineligible for AG exemptions. Just about all Ag ventures have utilities. Most barns have hot water, refrigeration and electricity and on and on.

If your property is a trailer and 100 acres then making the trailer and one acre a non Ag classification parcel and making the 99 under an AG classification parcel might make sense. That would mean you would be breaking the land into two parcels. I have never broken up a parcel into two but I have looked into it for this purpose. It would involve a form 5217 (NEW DEED DESCRIPTION). The directions can be found online. It looks like a big deal to do without help but worth the effort if it would do the trick. If you had a trailer and 5 acres then it wouldn't work.

To classify as AG you need a minimum # of acres ( not sure but it is about 7 acres or close to that) being used for agricultural purposes with minimum sales of I think $10,000 per parcel or if you rent it to a farmer with over $10,000 in sales that qualifies as well.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:58 PM
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The assesor will tell you, he has nothing to do with taxes. And he would be correct. The County, Town and school district in that area will decide the tax rate per thousand. I'm not defending the assesor here, it's still worth the effort to get it reduced, but really the assesor has nothing to do with the tax rate or taxes. Also, beware the forest land exemption. Read the fine print and you will see it is just a ploy by the State to get income tax on your timber. You will never get more in benefits from a very slight reduction in your assesment than you will pay in the end.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:48 PM
Savannah Savannah is offline
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I figured as much. If there were any kind of loop holes everyone would do it. In the end my family really enjoys the land, it just really sucks that while salaries stay the same, taxes keep going up.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:07 AM
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Gl,
I got ahead of your question with the splitting parcels idea. The answer to your question is yes it is "normal" to raise an assessment when vacant land is improved with well and utilities. However normal is usually the building lot area. Some towns will assess it at $9,000, Ours assesses it at $19,000. That part is tough to negotiate though I will be trying to on mine. The rest of the property however is the different story.

Negotiating with assessors is something us working people have to do as landowners just like dealing with trespassers and garbage dumpers and the like.The good thing about the assessors is if/once you have gotten your assessment adjusted it usually stays that way for a while.

The best route to take is to either just take being ripped off or accept the idea that you may have to go to multiple trips to the assessors and likely to the grievance committee and maybe even further. If you go to the assessors be sure to have an appointment. You are probably not the only one they raised so he or she may have a line of people.

On your first visit you should be gathering all the assessment information on your property ie; You'll want a copy of your subject property inventory summary, your soil group worksheet and a list of properties similar to yours that were used as comparisons to arrive at your figure. This is a fact finding mission at this point. It is important to remember that the evil assessor is not so evil. They are taxpayers like you and they eventually can be negotiated with. It just takes a lot of patience and your time AND THEIRS . You will need to find out what other properties like yours are assessed at. The assessor will tell you when you ask. Be sure to look into properties owned by local people not out of towners. It is just human nature for assessors to possibly be a little easier on someone who lives in town that they face at the coffee shop every day.

There are way more steps to this effort but this is the beginning and keeping assessments in line has always been worth the effort to me.
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