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Old 12-09-2009, 08:22 PM
BC Buck BC Buck is offline
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Default Saw log prices

I was thinking I need to get my place logged to create better habitat . I have some over mature oak and the woods don't have much under growth. I was told red and white oak prices are down in the Midwest and I should hold off a few years. Have any of you put logging on hold till the market goes up and is there any web sights to see history of timber pricing.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:54 PM
Arditta farm Arditta farm is offline
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Generally speaking, white and red log prices are down. Middle grade and upper grade of lumber is at low demand which relates to low log/stumpage prices. I had a thinning about 5years ago now, and I believe prices are about 1/2 what they were back then. If you can hang on till it swing back you will be better off. My concern would be my big Red oaks, if you see any insect damage or big Reds dying I certainly would cut instead of loosing them. Keep tabs on the lumber market, and you never know when speciality markets can get hot like White oak staves as an example. Good luck.
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:45 PM
HabitatMD HabitatMD is offline
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BC, the MDC has foresters assigned to each county. I'd suggest giving your counties forester a call. I've heard the same thing you have and I really can't expand much on what you already suspect.
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:46 PM
HabitatMD HabitatMD is offline
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And if you do talk to a forester, relay the info back here. I'm a little curious myself.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:01 PM
QDMer4life QDMer4life is offline
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Here are some published prices for Missouri.

http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/applications/...spx?NodeID=854
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:50 AM
woodsman324 woodsman324 is offline
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Here's some prices from the east side. http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/5259.html Just click on the chart to make the letters larger when you get to the price list.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:21 AM
BC Buck BC Buck is offline
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Originally Posted by HabitatMD View Post
BC, the MDC has foresters assigned to each county. I'd suggest giving your counties forester a call. I've heard the same thing you have and I really can't expand much on what you already suspect.

MDC offers a Cost Share stewardship plan for timber but was told they have no money this year. Foresters are charging $7. per acre to do this evaluation but I cant swing that. MDC has foresters on staff but with there backlog it takes years to get them to your property.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:27 AM
BC Buck BC Buck is offline
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Originally Posted by QDMer4life View Post
Here are some published prices for Missouri.

http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/applications/...spx?NodeID=854

I looked on there web sight and did not even see this info before I made this Post. Thanks to all of you
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:28 AM
criggster criggster is offline
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I'm getting my place logged NOW! I have already wasted ten years and am not willing to wast three+ more waiting on prices to move a little. In three years I could have a great bedding place instead of a closed canopy wasteland.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:33 AM
offroadr offroadr is offline
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Originally Posted by criggster View Post
I'm getting my place logged NOW! I have already wasted ten years and am not willing to wast three+ more waiting on prices to move a little. In three years I could have a great bedding place instead of a closed canopy wasteland.

I will be doing mine this summer. My forest consultant told me prices in our area have come back to about 10% of what they were last year. I am not taking all of them but getting a first cut done then another in 2011.

I can't wait for the changes it will make!
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:57 PM
VA2 VA2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsman324 View Post
Here's some prices from the east side. http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/5259.html Just click on the chart to make the letters larger when you get to the price list.


Thanks for the info!
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Old 12-13-2009, 01:20 AM
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I'm new to timbering and hinged and cut down and girdled a lot of mature oaks today (cringe ). Trying to do what's best for wildlife/deer as I had too much overstory. I "think" the lumber can still be salvage and I have 10 more acres of this mature timber I won't touch until having someone look at, but my question is:

How do you all determine approximately what a tree is worth to you net? That is if I have a healthy, straight, white oak for instance that's 80 foot tall and 24 inches at base and 12 inches at apex, on average what will you make as a landowner? I know that's very ambiguous and variant on location and actual condition of logs but just curious if it will be worth it to me to sell them? I have about 60 mature oaks like that that need to be harvested. All of them are not perfectly straight and some of them I'm sure are hollowing from disease and/or rot.
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:19 AM
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Hardwood pulpwood is over $50/ton here in SW Alabama right now. It's selling for more than hardwood sawlogs
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:46 AM
BC Buck BC Buck is offline
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Call your conservation,they might do a timber evaluation for free. Fifteen years ago Dad had 17 acre logged and it brought in about a $1000 an acre. Back then the tree you described was a $100 tree unless it was veneer grade then you are really talking good money. Make shure you talk to a forester be for you contact a logger for your best interest and they will set you up with a selective tree harvest.
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Old 12-13-2009, 10:15 AM
bigeight bigeight is offline
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Default Biltmore Stick

I always have used a biltmore stick to do this. My father uses his a ton for his line of work and taught me how to use one. They are not very difficult at to use. It will give you the diameter, and how many 16 ft logs that you should get from each tree. If you identify the tree, measure these things compare to the log prices that you looked up on line. You should get a pretty accurate idea of what your timber is "worth". Doesn't mean that you are going to get that, It is all supply and demand for the loggers, each one has a different demand so they will pay different amounts depending on that.

I do this for all of my friends now, we just head to the woods with a spray can, a biltomore stick, my rangefinder and a pad of paper and a pen and then they know who is low balling them and who is giving them a price worth while. Doesn't take long at all once you get the hang of it.

Just have a $ amount you want and keep getting bids until you get one you like. Get as many logging companies out there as you can.
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:00 PM
ronfromramer ronfromramer is offline
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Default Probably..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbush View Post
Hardwood pulpwood is over $50/ton here in SW Alabama right now. It's selling for more than hardwood sawlogs

the only benefit to all of this rain we've had. Not a lot of hardwood bottoms that can be cut right now due to wet ground.
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:04 PM
PALogger PALogger is offline
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Default Timber Volume

Bigeight is right with the biltmore stick, but I will caution that in bigger trees it is easy for a novice to mess up on diameter. I would advise the use of a diameter tape to check. Those can be bought from forestry supply places, or talk to your forestry office, maybe they will loan you one for the day. If all else fails and you don't want the hassle, the 6 foot pocket tape measures that are flexible can be used and converted to diameter. Go back to geometry for a minute and C=2(pie)(r). pie being 3.14. Take the total number of inches you got for circumference and divide by 3.14. a 16 inch tree is roughly 50 inches in circumference. The volume tables are in whole inches, so round appropriately.
Now, the other thing you need to know is that for your log tables to work diameter is taken at breast height, or 4.5 feet. If you are on a slope, measure at 4.5 feet on the uphill side. THe volume tables also need to know a height. This is measured in logs and half logs, 16 and 8 feet respectively. The volume tables also assume a single straight stem. This becomes a problem in big hardwood, because many times there are forks where each leader may still make an 8 foot log. There is no easy way to tally these,but do not assume height all the way out the leaders. It will skew your volume way out of whack. Remember that half the diameter is only one-quarter the volume; thats why it takes so many little pieces to make a load of firewood.Best bet is to go the the end of the straight stem and record a height to there, as its the most valuable part of the tree anyway. The biltmore stick is useful for the height measurement. You simply walk 66 feet away from the tree, and using the side of the stick line the bottom up with stump height and record the merchantable height closest to where logs stop. In white oak here 2 logs is actually pretty tall for sawlog height. Remember most mills do not buy logs below 11 inches diameter at the small end, so try to make a mental note how big that is and where that is on the tree. At days end you should have a list of trees that reads something like: WO, 18, 1.5.
Last thing, in your area I think most mills still use Doyle Rule. If you google Doyle Rule tree volume tables I am sure you will find a site that has them for you. For that tree listed above using Doyle Rule Form Class 78 you would have 132 board feet.(Form class is complicated but 78 is a fairly good bet with most hardwoods so use that if you can find it)
Hope this helps out, and I hope its not a bit too complicated to read and understand. I help my wife teach this stuff to her FFA kids but its a bit harder to describe without doing the 'show and tell' part of it.
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Old 12-13-2009, 01:22 PM
QDMer4life QDMer4life is offline
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Originally Posted by offroadr View Post
I will be doing mine this summer. My forest consultant told me prices in our area have come back to about 10% of what they were last year. I am not taking all of them but getting a first cut done then another in 2011.

I can't wait for the changes it will make!

For a lot of places, a 10% increase may just be a penny or 2. Hope yours is better.
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Old 12-13-2009, 01:36 PM
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So if I calculate how many 1000 board feet I have based on doyle's rule and compare to the worth of the timber based on local historical values...this I assume is the value of the timber.

Now, typically what would you as a landowner receive after it is logged by a select cutter for instance and he takes his "cut" for his work?
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Old 12-13-2009, 01:50 PM
QDMer4life QDMer4life is offline
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Originally Posted by scrimshaw33 View Post
So if I calculate how many 1000 board feet I have based on doyle's rule and compare to the worth of the timber based on local historical values...this I assume is the value of the timber.

Now, typically what would you as a landowner receive after it is logged by a select cutter for instance and he takes his "cut" for his work?

The value of your timber is the maximum amount someone will give you for it right now. Historical prices just show trends. Recent reported prices will give you a good idea, but your property still has a specific value for your timber. If you work with a logger, he gives you your 'cut', not vice versa. I wouldn't do a timber sale without a forester helping.
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