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  #461  
Old 01-25-2012, 12:25 PM
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Hi Don,

I just had a forester come through my land again, and they didnít want to do any cutting to that level because their thoughts are that there are too many deer and they will nip all the new re-growth off. I am not sure what to do next. Any suggestions. Thanks.

Jeff

Jeff, so the logging company doesn't want to log at all or doesn't want to log a lot of the timber?

A small logging effort will send up less shoots than a large scale logging effort. Our clearcuts from 3 years ago regenerated beautifully and are now extremely thick mix of aspen and maple, along with some conifers popping up. I'd say they are 8-15 feet tall with a very high stem density. They provide browse for the deer during the winter, but they are certainly thriving. Deer generally utilize browse in the cold weather months; focusing on alfalfa, soybeans, and natural forbs in the summer.

If they clearcut an area of your land, I'd have a hard time believing it wouldn't regenerate into new growth; considering the deer don't really yard up on your land in winter. We have yarded deer on our property just down the road and as I mentioned, our clearcuts regenerated really well.

All the best, Craig
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  #462  
Old 01-25-2012, 05:16 PM
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Just curious as to where you guys find most of your bigger bucks bedded, usually in creek bottoms, or ridge tops, or overgrown fence lines, park effect woods, regenerated clear cuts etc. Seems like around me in Northern/Central Michigan, there are a lot of cedar swamps and there seems to be a lot of nice bucks that bed on the dry humps of those swamps. I go through every year and clean off any sticks or limbs that have fallen onto these little dry spots in hopes that I might get a big ol' stinky 3.5 yr old to come lay on it. Makes sense, not to many humans go for a joy walk through knee deep muck & water, but I bet it would suck in the summertime, bugs, SNAKES!!!!
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  #463  
Old 01-25-2012, 06:16 PM
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Can Opener,
Here in Northern New York on my property I do not have any cedar swamps for the bucks to bed in. We do have drainage areas and many of the bucks here are often bedding on the edge of the drainage areas among high stem count saplings on those same type of small high spots you would find in a cedar swamp. Sometimes it is thick all around but usually there is one view side and one thick side.

Some of the bucks are choosing the brush choked areas adjacent to tree tops and briers caused by recent apple tree releasing. They are not exactly in the brush but are very near it or against it. Many of the apple trees I am releasing are near these drainage areas on small knolls and like you when I drop branches onto them I often move them a few steps away.

And some of the bucks here bed in the open hardwoods on the edge of a ridge or drop off near a soft edge say where the woods goes from 18 inch trees to 6 to 8 inch trees. I can not see that older bucks are picking only certain types of spots because we only have a few 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year old bucks and no older bucks on the property that I have seen so it is unknown what an older deer would choose here.
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  #464  
Old 01-26-2012, 10:51 PM
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Sooooooo, has anybody heard what Don Higgins shot this year? Or how his season went?

Great season! Shot a few does but havent even drawn back on a buck in 2 years.
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  #465  
Old 01-26-2012, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Critter Chaser View Post
Hi Don,

I just had a forester come through my land again, and they didnít want to do any cutting to that level because their thoughts are that there are too many deer and they will nip all the new re-growth off. I am not sure what to do next. Any suggestions. Thanks.

Jeff

Without seeing it firsthand I cant offer much advice. I will reluctantly suggest that you follow the advice of the forester although in my experience they are way more concerned with timber production that deer habitat.
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  #466  
Old 01-26-2012, 10:58 PM
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Don,

To parallel the above question by Chainsaw, what are your thoughts/experiences/opinions on establishing a diverse native range (inclusive of forbs, grasses, legumes, and brush) vs a monoculture of switchgrass?

This far south, rarely is standability in winter of NWSG an issue and severe summer drought/heat would hamper the sward more than other weather events. Native range here took a heavy hit in 2011...long term damage for some.

TIA

I am definetly a fan of varied habitat over a mono-culture. NWSG is great and lots of it is better than a little of it but having other types of habitat in conjunction with NWSG is the best approach.
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  #467  
Old 01-26-2012, 11:03 PM
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Hinge cutting will give you instant cover, planting trees and shrubs takes time and more money.
Most hunters want to see results in the fall from what they have done in the spring and summer, not 5+ years later.

What I am talking about doesnt take 5 years. It creates quality bedding cover every bit as fast as hinge cutting. On my property I did the work in Feb and March and by October I had awesome bedding cover where the season before I had open woods wheer I rarely saw deer. It might cost a little more but you end up with MUCH better habitat.
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  #468  
Old 01-26-2012, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweet November View Post
Jeff, so the logging company doesn't want to log at all or doesn't want to log a lot of the timber?

A small logging effort will send up less shoots than a large scale logging effort. Our clearcuts from 3 years ago regenerated beautifully and are now extremely thick mix of aspen and maple, along with some conifers popping up. I'd say they are 8-15 feet tall with a very high stem density. They provide browse for the deer during the winter, but they are certainly thriving. Deer generally utilize browse in the cold weather months; focusing on alfalfa, soybeans, and natural forbs in the summer.

If they clearcut an area of your land, I'd have a hard time believing it wouldn't regenerate into new growth; considering the deer don't really yard up on your land in winter. We have yarded deer on our property just down the road and as I mentioned, our clearcuts regenerated really well.

All the best, Craig


I am only going by what the guy told me. This particular piece was logged about 10 years ago and he said it should be thicker and the reason it wasnít was because of the deer. As I think about it, maybe they just donít want to do it because all the good trees are gone and there is not enough money in it for them. Not sure. Not sure what I am going to do next. Was the area you had clear-cut high land or low land?
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  #469  
Old 01-26-2012, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bigeight View Post
I think he is saying that you should kill the un desired species as well as the root system. Cut it down and stump treat so the roots die as well. No suckering, or stump sprouting???

What are you treating the roots with?
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  #470  
Old 01-26-2012, 11:27 PM
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Canopener, I've jumped 3 bucks in different years on my property and every buck I jumped was a the military crest of a hill directed South or Southwest in a fairly open area where it could see below it. I've found beds in low areas but they seem to be doe bedding areas as there's groupings of beds. Those areas to me also seem to be quite cold. One thing's for sure they have all been in areas that were more remote than doe bedding areas, away from food, about 100 yards or so, whereas my does beds have been almost butted right up to food sources (within 20 yards or so). This is what I have noticed from matted beds as well as observations from a freak snow storm we had last year. I do seem to have more single beds in my switchgrass than multiple bed sites, again on hills or ridges overlooking valleys, and away from food sources.
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  #471  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Critter Chaser View Post
I am only going by what the guy told me. This particular piece was logged about 10 years ago and he said it should be thicker and the reason it wasnít was because of the deer. As I think about it, maybe they just donít want to do it because all the good trees are gone and there is not enough money in it for them. Not sure. Not sure what I am going to do next. Was the area you had clear-cut high land or low land?

Our clearcuts were at the edge where the lowland cedar swamp meets the highland hardwoods. They are as thick as all get out....very difficult to walk through. Next time we're up, you'll have to come take a look at it. I think the Doc and some of the rest of us are going to try to get up in mid February.

In regards to the other question, if you don't want a tree to regen or throw up suckers a good mix is 50% water, 50% glyphosate. In our situation the clearcut areas had mixed in conifers and they are popping up everywhere.

Craig
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  #472  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:23 AM
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What are you treating the roots with?

I usually use tordon because it is easy to carry around when using the chainsaw. Works out of a little squirt bottle, rather than a pump sprayer I use with mixes.

Others might use different chemicals to do the same
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  #473  
Old 01-27-2012, 04:02 PM
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One thing's for sure they have all been in areas that were more remote than doe bedding areas, away from food, about 100 yards or so, whereas my does beds have been almost butted right up to food sources (within 20 yards or so).

Well Scrimshaw, since you've already hit the nail on the head I will share with you a chunk of info that I paid for, even though most of us know in the back of our heads that this is how it is.....Doe's bed for conveinence and "Bigger" bucks bed for nothing more than security. That is their main objective. They will travel much further to food just to stay alive and bed with confidence.
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  #474  
Old 03-08-2012, 01:24 PM
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Don Higgins....it's unfortunate that this thread kinda died on the vine after it was established that Michigan hunters are superior. Beyond that, there was some really good information exchanged on this topic. At any rate, I'm looking forward to your presentation this Saturday in STL.
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  #475  
Old 03-08-2012, 06:05 PM
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Don Higgins....it's unfortunate that this thread kinda died on the vine after it was established that Michigan hunters are superior. Beyond that, there was some really good information exchanged on this topic. At any rate, I'm looking forward to your presentation this Saturday in STL.

Wow, and right out of left field comes Starbux. I think we can all move on now hopefully. This thread is a classic. You better make sure you get a front row seat and then maybe you'll be as smart as a Michigan hunter.
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  #476  
Old 03-09-2012, 11:44 AM
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Wow, and right out of left field comes Starbux. I think we can all move on now hopefully. This thread is a classic. You better make sure you get a front row seat and then maybe you'll be as smart as a Michigan hunter.

I can only hope to be almost as good as you and some of my other northern neighbors some day. Your prowess in the whitetail woods is unattainable to most mortals...
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  #477  
Old 03-09-2012, 01:22 PM
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Well Scrimshaw, since you've already hit the nail on the head I will share with you a chunk of info that I paid for, even though most of us know in the back of our heads that this is how it is.....Doe's bed for conveinence and "Bigger" bucks bed for nothing more than security. That is their main objective. They will travel much further to food just to stay alive and bed with confidence.

What are your observations for buck bedding relative to food source and prevaling wind direction? Specifically times outside of the rut phases.

Wind plays a big role here based on my observations. BTW...5 of the 6 top sheds were found on food source and all within a 250 yd diameter. How far from bedding I can't exactly say at this point....trail pics/videos this spring/summer will help unwravel the puzzle.
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  #478  
Old 03-09-2012, 03:38 PM
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What are your observations for buck bedding relative to food source and prevaling wind direction? Specifically times outside of the rut phases.

Wind plays a big role here based on my observations. BTW...5 of the 6 top sheds were found on food source and all within a 250 yd diameter. How far from bedding I can't exactly say at this point....trail pics/videos this spring/summer will help unwravel the puzzle.

That is a million dollar question there.....in this post I remember Don saying he figured that a buck will travel up to a mile under the cover of darkness to feed at a destination type food source. I know on my place the older class bucks travel to the back edge of my place, but usually further back onto my neighbors to bed for the day and then at night travel South to North at least 80 acres in length. But that is with good cover most of the way. It seems I get most of the doe's to hunker down on our 80 with the bigger boys going a little further back into no mans land. A lot of what North Jeff is saying about the mature bucks laying back further than the doe's is really making a lot of sense to me now.
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  #479  
Old 03-09-2012, 04:18 PM
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What are your observations for buck bedding relative to food source and prevaling wind direction? Specifically times outside of the rut phases.

Wind plays a big role here based on my observations. BTW...5 of the 6 top sheds were found on food source and all within a 250 yd diameter. How far from bedding I can't exactly say at this point....trail pics/videos this spring/summer will help unwravel the puzzle.

This is a good read if you haven't already read it:

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.co...-use-the-wind/
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you shot a yearling you bastard!
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:10 PM
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A few years ago I wrote an article titled "Giant Steps to Giant Bucks". In it I detailed how over a 30+ year whitetail hunting career, there were only 2 times when I learned something that instantly made my hunting success take a major leap forward. There are lots of little things we pick up that when compounded together make us better hunters but this article was about those 2 things that each by themself instantly made me a much better hunter. One of those was learning to USE the wind. This was taught to me by a successful veteran hunter when I was about 20 years old and instantly made me more successful. I wont get into the details of that one as it is off topic and a story in itself.

ok sir, time for the "USE the wind" portion of the lecture....we are ready



sorry if you followed up on this and i missed it, i did a quick search with no luck.
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