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Bnhpr
08-06-2006, 03:59 PM
I will be planting some AW peas in a few weeks and wanted some feedback from some people that have planted them in the mid states and north.

I was wondering what they do when the frost hits them? Do they turn brown, or do they stay green until snow covers them?

How much growth do you get in the fall?

I was thinking of planting them winter rye.

Ben

dogdoc
08-06-2006, 06:38 PM
winter rye is a good choice with the AWP. Depending on the weather you will get quite of bit of growth before the weather gets too cold. After the soil temps reach a certain temp they do go into a winter dormancy and quit growing but they do stay green and deer will continue to forage on them. Like the cereal grains--once the spring sun starts warming the soil they take off and provide a lot of early spring forage. They mature out late spring and produce seed heads that the turkeys love. A great addition for a fall plot.

todd

Thayer.qdma
08-06-2006, 07:02 PM
Throw a bit of white, ladino or another clover in there and you have covered alot of the nutritional needs of your deer in the winter season...Getting your deer to recuperate from the rut quicker is essential to developing, and maintaining a quality deer herd. A bit of brassicas in another plot will help also.

We planted peas for the first time last year...and either we did not have a great germination rate or the deer really loved em...we only had a handful of plants overwinter...where the oats really came back well.

Bnhpr
08-06-2006, 07:59 PM
I have acres of clover/timothy/alfalfa growing around it. I plan on trying the biomaxx on this spot next year.

Have not decided if I'll mix my own corn/beans, or try the Biologic brand.

Apparently, in my zone (5) AW peas may or may not survive the winter. Winter rye always does well, so that's my spring insurance.

I'll be planting the rye/peas in about 3 weeks.

swvahunter
08-07-2006, 02:54 PM
Are you folks innoculating the peas? I'll be planting some also, and wanted to toss that in.

banc123
08-07-2006, 06:36 PM
I've inoculated soybeans but not iron/clay or AWPs. The purpose of inoculation is typically to increase the yield of beans/peas (fruit) vs increase the forage leaves. Even though I did not inoculate the cow peas, they had hundreds of long pea pods. The AWPs were more forage, but 20% of them that lasted to the spring produced small pea pods. Since my main goal of beans/peas is the forage vs the beans/peas, I haven't put a lot of energy into inoculation unless they came pre inoculated.

You can't just use a "generic" bacteria, you have to get the one specifc for that plant type. Research is showing more and more that the right kind makes a big difference.

swvahunter
08-07-2006, 08:53 PM
So in a nutshell, you don't feel that skipping innoculation has hurt forage production? Thanks.

banc123
08-07-2006, 10:26 PM
I feel very comfortable it hasn't impacted the iron and clay peas, they are thick, thick , thick and well over waist high . The AWPs I planted last year got about knee high in the fall/winter and then grew to over 5ft tall and thick in the spring. I can't say that inoculation wouldn't have helped, but I was happy with what I got. I have an iron/clay pea plot thats about 7-8 weeks , protected by a plot saver until Sunday and the leaves are bigger than your extended hand and so tall with the weight of the leaves a blast of wind can cause a section to lay down due to the parachute effect. The ones on the edge have grown +6 ft tall up brush/trees boarding the plot.

So in a nutshell, I guess not.

Bnhpr
08-08-2006, 07:52 AM
It would be interesting to innoculate 1/2 of a stand and quantify how much difference it makes.

To me, innoculation has always been black art. If your PH is right, and soil is healthy, they seem to grow fine.

nobubus
08-08-2006, 01:29 PM
Based on what I read in the forum, I mixed AWP and beans with some Sorhgum, and planted in May. Looked great until the peas/beans reached 3 to 4 inches. Left one day and the field was full of 4 inch plants. Returned three days later and they were all completely gone, but the sorhgum was left growing. Deer had eaten em all (except where I places an isolation cage). I also planted clover in two adjacent 1/2 acre fields. Although I see deer in the clover every evening (varies from 4 to 12) they have never devoured all the clover. Still looks great. Now I only plant clover, said the heck with peas/beans. Will plant some rye grain/WW mix with clover in about 3 weeks in 2 plots about 3/4 acre each for fall plot, but in my small fields peas/beans are not a good choice (guess too many deer, but I wouldn't complain).

Dutch
08-08-2006, 08:18 PM
In some of the old farming books I have from the late 1800's and early 1900's, there are pics of fields in the midwest that were innoculated and others that weren't. HUGE difference in growth of soybeans. However, at this point, most everything thats farmable in the midwest has had soys, so its a moot point. May not be the case with some food plots.

Back in the day, one way they innoculated new soil was to take soil from a field that had grown beans and apply it to a new field. Lotsa work, but thats what they did in some cases.

Lickcreek
08-09-2006, 09:36 AM
Inoculate is so dirt cheap, it simply doesn't make sense not to treat your legume seed before planting. Once you have inoculated seed and it has grown on that soil or plot it is generally not needed again unless it is 3-5 years between planting that particular legume.

Farmers that grow soybeans in an every other year rotation with corn generally don't need to add inoculate but if planting beans on sod for instance it can really slow growth with out being inoculated.

Or...you can add plenty of very expensive nitrogen...:D


Inoculation (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=21&org=0)

banc123
08-09-2006, 08:44 PM
Soybeans are one thing, not hard to find the right bacteria to inoculate.

Does anyone have easy access or know the right bacteria for Iron/Clay Peas or AWPs ? The inoculation for those are not the same as soybeans , same for clover. Each seed type requires bacteria specific to that plant type, so you can't use your soybean inoculation on your peas or clover etc... Recently new bacteria was found specific to iron/clay pea needs that really increased the pea production in the study. Problem was it wasn't widely produced a form that could be used.

I've read a ton of stuff on how inoculation has a large impact on bean / pea production, but never seen any literature on it improving forage leaf production or volumes. I read a couple of articles where that authors goal was not to produce more bean/peas because that took away from the production of leaves. I kind of like the beans/peas, while the deer here don't eat them much the turkey and quail do.

But it would be interesting to know if anyone actually has access to inoculation bacteria for AWPs or Iron/Clay, because its nowhere to be found down here.

Cooperseeds has a great selection and always asks if you want the seed inoculated for just a couple of $s. For iron/clay, they do not ask.

swvahunter
08-09-2006, 09:27 PM
Adams Briscoe Seed Company sells inoculant specific to species, including AWP.

Lickcreek
08-09-2006, 10:08 PM
Does anyone have easy access or know the right bacteria for Iron/Clay Peas or AWPs ?


This is where I get mine:

Pea and Vetch Inoculant (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=211)

banc123
08-09-2006, 10:17 PM
I don't think I've seen their site before (ABS), thats an impressive list of products. Their product list did not list the price of the various inoculate types they have, but their products seems high vs the local farm store. We get cow peas for $28 for 50# vs $42. Still an impressive list of products.

They even sell weed seed and kudzu. Want some rag weed or kudzu, thats the place I guess.

Never seen anything other than soybean type in these parts.

uthunter
08-09-2006, 11:14 PM
Banc,

I can hook you up with some Ragweed if you want...we have a bumper crop.

asmith
08-10-2006, 11:53 AM
banc123 and everyone needing to purchase inoculant.....here is a site that has a chart listing the Type of inoculant for various seeds.
http://stephenville.tamu.edu/forages/fot/ad/fixation.html

AWP and othe peas and vetch require a Type C inoculant. The Type is what you want to look for on the package. The two timesI purchased inoculant, the package listed which seeds it was to be used on. So even if I had not know the Type to ask for, One can simply read on the packages til you find the right inoculant. Other sites I've looked at make a point of checking the expiration date on the package to make sure you don't get some expired inoculant, and to see that the inoculant has not been stored in a hot place. Hope this helps.