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Fred
02-06-2012, 05:52 PM
No not hunting Dogs, but hunting Deer WITH Dogs. I know theres only a few southern States that still allow this, is there anyone here in those states? Do you hunt with dogs? If not do you kill deer off someone elses dogs if they cross your land? Whats the best way, LEGAL way, to keep the dogs off your land? I own 40 acres in VA and I don't want dogs running the deer off my little piece but don't know how in the world I can stop it.

bcbz71
02-06-2012, 06:01 PM
Big issue here in FL so they regulated the hell out of it. You gotta register your dogs, have GPS collars, etc....not sure what VA laws are.

Very polarizing subject.....worse than religion, politics, or FordvsChevy. I get that folks enjoy hearing dogs and watching them run, but a stretch to call it hunting.

As far as your problems, I would start with your local game warden to find out what you can do.

banc123
02-06-2012, 06:18 PM
Probably won't find many people here that dog hunt. We have a couple who have and 1 or 2 that may still do it, but not a subject that goes over well on here. Nothing wrong with it if people are staying within their legal rights.

The best legal way to deal with it is simple, but rarely followed through.

1. You must document every case in a detailed log. Video evidence is preferred.
2. You must call your DNR game law officer , every time.
3. You must be willing to take legal action

If you'd like more info, PM is best.

Fred
02-06-2012, 06:32 PM
Sounds good. I need to research it much deeper however I think VA laws are written to protect the dog owners NOT the land owners. And I beleive a dog owner can come onto private property in order to retreive dogs, even without permission, as long as they do so with out a weapon or intent of "hunting"

Fred
02-06-2012, 06:34 PM
Just found this. Its a crock of bull if you ask me but it did come straight out of the 2011 VA hunting Regs:

Hunting with Dogs
•Dogs may be used to pursue wild birds and animals during hunting seasons where not prohibited.
•Section 18.2-136 of the Code of Virginia decriminalizes trespass in certain instances related to dog retrieval. That section provides: "Fox hunters and coon hunters, when the chase begins on other lands, may follow their dogs on prohibited lands, and hunters of all other game, when the chase begins on other lands, may go upon prohibited lands to retrieve their dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls but may not carry firearms or bows and arrows on their persons or hunt any game while thereon. The use of vehicles to retrieve dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls on prohibited lands shall be allowed only with the permission of the landowner or his agent. Any person who goes on prohibited lands to retrieve his dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls pursuant to this section and who willfully refuses to identify himself when requested by the landowner or his agent to do so is guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor."
•Tracking dogs maintained and controlled on a lead may be used to find a wounded or dead bear or deer statewide during any archery, muzzleloader, or firearm bear or deer hunting season, or within 24 hours of the end of such season, provided that those who are involved in the retrieval effort have permission to hunt on or to access the land being searched and do not have any weapons in their possession.
•Unlawful to use dogs when hunting any species with archery tackle during any archery season.
•Unlawful to chase with dogs or hunt with dogs or to attempt to chase or hunt with dogs any wild animal from a baited site or to train dogs on any wild animal from a baited site. Furthermore, it shall be unlawful to place, distribute or maintain bait or salt for any wild animal for the purpose of chasing with dogs, hunting with dogs, or the training of dogs. A baited site will be considered to be baited for 30 days following the complete removal of all such bait or salt.
•It is unlawful to intentionally cripple or otherwise harm any game animal for the intent of continuing a hunt, or chase, or for the purpose of training dogs. Upon treeing, baying, or otherwise containing an animal in a manner that offers the animal no avenue of escape, the person or the hunting party shall either harvest the animal if within a legal take season and by using lawful methods of take or terminate the chase by retrieving the dogs and allowing the animal freedom to escape for the remainder of the same calendar day.
•It is unlawful to dislodge an animal from a tree for the intent of continuing a hunt, or chase, or for the purpose of training dogs.

Bad Faulkner
02-06-2012, 06:39 PM
Big issue here in FL so they regulated the hell out of it. You gotta register your dogs, have GPS collars, etc....not sure what VA laws are.

Very polarizing subject.....worse than religion, politics, or FordvsChevy. I get that folks enjoy hearing dogs and watching them run, but a stretch to call it hunting. As far as your problems, I would start with your local game warden to find out what you can do.

Joe Hamilton wrote that thirty-some years ago in South Carolina deer hunting with high powered rifles was considered the most unsporting thing imaginable; dog hunting was about all anyone knew or practiced. Times change.

I've never done it but driving dogs with deer is a very old Southern tradition. I support its legal continuation in the South.

Bad Faulkner
02-06-2012, 06:41 PM
Fred, do a little research on the reforms Georgia made for dog driving. They're being looked upon as a model state by stand hunters and dog drivers in South Carolina who are looking for common ground and to chase the rogues out of the sport.

Fred
02-06-2012, 06:44 PM
The good thing about dog drives in VA is it is a late season thing, it allows early season for Muzzle Loader and Archery TAckle. Bad part being during that early season "Primative" weapons hunts, field trials and dog training is going on so deer seldom get a break

banc123
02-06-2012, 06:50 PM
Just found this. Its a crock of bull if you ask me but it did come straight out of the 2011 VA hunting Regs:

Don't confuse what the laws are around a dog owner's right to retrieve their animal without being charged with trespassing and your rights as a land owner to not be subject to repeated encroachments.

Two different legal matters.

Fred
02-06-2012, 07:32 PM
Don't confuse what the laws are around a dog owner's right to retrieve their animal without being charged with trespassing and your rights as a land owner to not be subject to repeated encroachments.

Two different legal matters.

I guess I don't quite understand what your saying. The way its written they can retreive thier dogs off my land. Is what your saying if it happens continuesly its a different matter?

My saving grace to my land is a sigle dirt road access and a gate with a big sign no trepassing. Plus the Land is posted no trespassing/No Hunting. However a sign every 5 feet does no good if I'm not there to enforce them. 7 more years till I retire!!

Ikantski
02-06-2012, 07:58 PM
It's pretty entrenched here in Central Ontario as well but I would say it's on the decline and hopefully on the way out. The main reasons are a) It's a pain to exercise and feed the hounds all year long for 2 weeks of hunting, b) more crowding in the woods means more hassle with the dogs getting mixed up with other groups and c) they don't mention it in the hunter safety courses anymore, it's usually passed down through the family.

I bought 40 acres of thick, young bush in a dog hunting zone last December that was driven with dogs every single hunting season for about 30 years. I was pretty worried that the entire population would go underground for the entire fall, the population would be very low or that I would have problems with dogs chasing into my property.

It turned out I was worrying needlessly; I had plenty of daytime deer activity (mostly does/fawns/spikes mind you but 2 different mature buck encounters within 20 yards). My population is relatively great, I've had 6 different 3.5 year or older deer on trail cameras and was able to harvest the oldest with my bow. Almost every sit, I saw at least a doe and fawn in daylight. Neither I nor my neighbor saw any sign of the people who used to run dogs there (I assume they stuck to the 1000s of acres of crown land nearby). I also learned that dog hunters around here really did not have much success with nice bucks but they did do ok on does and fawns. I believe that is why I have a 1.3 doe/buck ratio. Or maybe the population is high because they shoot a lot of fawns on the run and the smart ol' does live on.

That's why I cannot argue that it is horrible for hunting and should be outright banned immediately but I do have two main problems with it.

My main issue with it in Ontario is that there is absolutely no law against running your dogs through someone else's property, accidental or not. This makes all hunters look like slobs when they run it through a non-hunters personal nature sanctuary. I would like to see the dogs registered as deer chasing dogs (everything else is registered up here!) so that the owner could be held personally accountable for a dog trespassing during hunting season. Honestly, I would probably rather have the dog run through my property than the owner though, less scent and less likely to change the deer's pattern.

The hypocrisy of allowing it here is that it is mostly only legal in the very thick, non-agricultural areas (the argument being that they need dogs because otherwise they would never see a deer) but those are also the areas with the worst nutrition. It's frustrating to think that the deer fatten up on acorns (no corn or soybeans here) during October only to get run around by dogs for two weeks straight in November. With the low success rate of dogging, it seems like a lot of deer energy wasted to put a little venison in the freezer.

Hunting with dogs is its own challenge (training, finding the dogs when it's over, feeding and exercising all year, cost of GPS/radio equipment), on par with the difficulty of minor habitat improvements although completely lacking the benefit to the deer herd. I can't say it's not hunting anymore than a bow hunter can say using a crossbow "isn't hunting". Most of them know they would have more success putting out a pile of corn but it simply wouldn't be deer hunting without the hounds. I also know some dog hunters who have their secret clearings where they've got some clover growing and some who do not allow shooting does on their properties (too many does isn't a big problem up here, much harsher winters).

So as a conclusion to that self-exploratory essay, I'm a QDMA guy who is selfishly fine with the small percentage of hunters who use dogs to chase on the condition that the owners are held responsible for the trespassing of the dog. In kind of a backwards way, dogging may actually be good for the age structure because, as much fun as those hunters are having, they're not that great at actually killing deer so more deer get older every year and winter takes care of the overflow.

banc123
02-06-2012, 08:10 PM
I guess I don't quite understand what your saying. The way its written they can retreive thier dogs off my land. Is what your saying if it happens continuesly its a different matter?

My saving grace to my land is a sigle dirt road access and a gate with a big sign no trepassing. Plus the Land is posted no trespassing/No Hunting. However a sign every 5 feet does no good if I'm not there to enforce them. 7 more years till I retire!!

The fact that they can retrieve their dogs without being charged for trespassing doesn't mean the encroachment itself is legal. Especially repeated. Not familiar with the VA encroachment laws, but lets assume there is no hunting regulation or state law that makes it illegal for a dog to enter private property without the owners permission. Repeated, documented encroachments can be classified a nuisance. There is a former case that sets this precedence.

Fred
02-06-2012, 09:17 PM
Good to hear other opinions and see others who are for and against Dog HUnting. Guess only the future will show what the future holds

bigmike
02-06-2012, 10:06 PM
In Virginia, a person can legally come onto your property to retrieve their dog. They are supposed to be unarmed.

I believe that some people turn their dogs loose to run deer off neighboring properties. Bear hunters are a real pain in the neck. They turn their dogs loose at the end of our driveway and there's not a damn thing i can do about it. If they tree a bear, the owner can come onto the property to retrieve.

Massey135
02-06-2012, 11:13 PM
Virginia is pretty screwed up in this regard. A dog owner has far more rights than a land owner. Simple as that. Every bear season, I've got 5-6 pickups with dog crates and gps units parked on the road in front of our property. I can't say I hate the bear hunters, as I wish they would kill every single bear within 800 miles of me, but I'm sure as hell glad I;m not in the deer dog portion of the state.

blumsden
02-07-2012, 07:21 AM
The only way to keep dogs off your property is to fence it. Fence the entire property. Deer will jump the fence. As a matter of fact, after the deer get used to the fence, when ever they are being run by dogs, they'll jump your fence to get away from them. You'll have a deer sanctuary. My cousin has a 5' high fence and the deer jump it with ease, the only problem would be fawns. I doubt they could jump it when their small. You could put in some gates and leave them open during fawning season and then close them when hunting season starts. A 4' fence may be high enough, leave it floppy so dogs cant climb it. It would be expensive, i know, but it's the only way to keep dogs off your property. You could even open a gate every now and then to create the perfect funnel.

Fred
02-07-2012, 08:47 AM
Holy crap fencing 40 acres would cost a fortune!!!!

My first concern is of course dogs running deer off my property but my second concern will be varmint traps that may be set on my property. I don't need to be trying to trap coyotes and coons only to end up with deer hounds. The only way to keep dogs off your property is to fence it. Fence the entire property. Deer will jump the fence. As a matter of fact, after the deer get used to the fence, when ever they are being run by dogs, they'll jump your fence to get away from them. You'll have a deer sanctuary. My cousin has a 5' high fence and the deer jump it with ease, the only problem would be fawns. I doubt they could jump it when their small. You could put in some gates and leave them open during fawning season and then close them when hunting season starts. A 4' fence may be high enough, leave it floppy so dogs cant climb it. It would be expensive, i know, but it's the only way to keep dogs off your property. You could even open a gate every now and then to create the perfect funnel.

Land Owner
02-07-2012, 03:35 PM
No not hunting Dogs

Dang it...just kidding (hehe). :o

Deer run by dogs can't taste all that good! Consider the Primordial Soup of chemistry coursing through the deer's bloodstream in response to Fight or Flight while being pursued by a dreaded creature (to them) with perhaps a BETTER nose than the deer itself.

Anyone know for fact what the limit(s) of deer and dog Sense of Smell is compared to man's?

Fred
02-07-2012, 07:45 PM
I have hunted with dogs before and I have to say the meat is TUFF> Partially due to being run but mostly due to not aging meat at all,. Then on top of that a deer would be killed and not field dressed due to not wanting to distract the dogs and then hung for sometimes hours with the guts and all in tact. Generally what I did was get my deer hung immediatly and field dressed hanging, then if weather wasn't to warm return to the hunt if it was warm get the deer quatered and in freezer.

Dang it...just kidding (hehe). :o

Deer run by dogs can't taste all that good! Consider the Primordial Soup of chemistry coursing through the deer's bloodstream in response to Fight or Flight while being pursued by a dreaded creature (to them) with perhaps a BETTER nose than the deer itself.

Anyone know for fact what the limit(s) of deer and dog Sense of Smell is compared to man's?

BAITIN
02-07-2012, 08:04 PM
Big issue here in FL so they regulated the hell out of it. You gotta register your dogs, have GPS collars, etc....not sure what VA laws are.

Very polarizing subject.....worse than religion, politics, or FordvsChevy. I get that folks enjoy hearing dogs and watching them run, but a stretch to call it hunting.

As far as your problems, I would start with your local game warden to find out what you can do.



A stretch to call it hunting........... ??????????????

I tell you what. Next time I take a notion to go you make a trip up and I will buy all the shells you can stand to shoot. If the dogs are in a good race the deer comes by and it looks like its 12 feet long and 2 feet off the ground. Killing them with a rifle is a piece of cake compared to killing one going Mach 3. Heck I do better hitting a little dove than I do hitting a deer running in a briar thicket or a swamp bottom.

MDuffy
02-07-2012, 09:44 PM
A stretch to call it hunting........... ??????????????

I tell you what. Next time I take a notion to go you make a trip up and I will buy all the shells you can stand to shoot. If the dogs are in a good race the deer comes by and it looks like its 12 feet long and 2 feet off the ground. Killing them with a rifle is a piece of cake compared to killing one going Mach 3. Heck I do better hitting a little dove than I do hitting a deer running in a briar thicket or a swamp bottom.

I think you are confusing the 'hunting' with the 'shooting'. I've never done it, but I don't reckon there is a lot of hunting skill involved? Shooting skill....absolutely.

Hoseman
02-07-2012, 09:47 PM
Fred, You have property in one of the largest, most popular dog hunting counties in Virginia. I live in the adjoining county which is the most prolific hound hunting county in state and most likely the entire country. The vast majority of the deer hunters hunt with hounds in my area and I enjoy hunting with hounds myself as well as bowhunting during the early season. As mentioned earlier this topic is more controversial than religion, politics or Ford vs Chevy. Hound hunting has evolved dramatically in states to our south but, in my opinion, is too deeply engrained into the DNA of southeastern Virginia to change any time in the future. In fact, I doubt it will ever change and I am fine with it as I enjoy it and was raised hunting with hounds as were the majority of the folks in the area. You will get comments from people all over the country mostly against hunting deer with dogs but I think they may actually enjoy it if they ever gave it a chance. The only possible way to keep dogs off of your property would be to low fence the entire perimeter. My best advice would be to try to learn to co-exist with the neighbors and the dogs. If you are extremely anti-hound hunting, I think I would explore purchasing land west of the blue ridge. It really depends on your location and the neighboring hunt clubs and how often dogs run in the area.

MDuffy
02-07-2012, 09:53 PM
For the record, I'm not condemning anyone for dog hunting for deer. I'm sure it would be tons of fun. I'm just glad it doesn't go on around here.

Hoseman
02-07-2012, 10:01 PM
I think you are confusing the 'hunting' with the 'shooting'. I've never done it, but I don't reckon there is a lot of hunting skill involved? Shooting skill....absolutely.

Matt, Hunting with hounds is definitely much different than any other type of deer hunting. It is a deep rooted tradition in SE Virginia and many of the hunters enjoy the social aspect of the hunt as much as the actual hunting. It is very exciting and I would recomend giving it a try one day. The terrain here is much different than in Illinois as the vast majority of the land consists of various aged cutovers, pine thickets and swamps. It is extremely thick and in most places you can't see 25 feet. I have been to Illiniois hunting a couple of times and loved it but our terrain is completely opposite. What you would call a bedding area, we would call open woods. Virtually 90% of our land is one big bedding area. I also like to bowhunt and gun hunt out of treestands but it is often nice to change it up and hunt with dogs.

MDuffy
02-07-2012, 10:03 PM
Matt, Hunting with hounds is definitely much different than any other type of deer hunting. It is a deep rooted tradition in SE Virginia and many of the hunters enjoy the social aspect of the hunt as much as the actual hunting. It is very exciting and I would recomend giving it a try one day. The terrain here is much different than in Illinois as the vast majority of the land consists of various aged cutovers, pine thickets and swamps. It is extremely thick and in most places you can't see 25 feet. I have been to Illiniois hunting a couple of times and loved it but our terrain is completely opposite. What you would call a bedding area, we would call open woods. Virtually 90% of our land is one big bedding area. I also like to bowhunt and gun hunt out of treestands but it is often nice to change it up and hunt with dogs.

I am not doubting any of that 1 bit, see my above post. ^^^^^^

Hoseman
02-07-2012, 10:08 PM
Matt, No problem. You hit "enter" a few seconds before me. When we were on our bowhunting trips in Illinois, all of us Virginia boys had a discussion that we would love to have a good pack of walkers and turn them loose on some of those Illinois monsters. They would move for sure then!

UFi911
02-07-2012, 10:17 PM
Man am I glad I've learned to keep my mouth shut.

-John

MDuffy
02-07-2012, 10:29 PM
Man am I glad I've learned to keep my mouth shut.

-John

Something I long to hear myself say some day.:D :D

CaveCreek
02-07-2012, 10:36 PM
Man am I glad I've learned to keep my mouth shut.
I'm not a 100% on that method yet. :rolleyes:

My biggest problem, if I was in such an area, is simply the "tresspass" that is allowed. To me, that's stupidity. Seems like it would breed and engrain "tresspassing" into the cultures as well. It's not like it's public land. Seems like the landowner should have the right to capture the said dogs, and refuse "tresspass" to the hunter. If the states gonna allow infringement onto others property, then they also ought to have wardens, whose duties include pickuping up "strayed dogs" when contacted by the landoweners.

So, what if the hunting dogs were to get onto someone's livestock? is the hunter held responsible?

Ikantski
02-07-2012, 10:52 PM
In Ontario, you can shoot a dog if it's a danger to your livestock or messing up your crops but even then I wouldn't risk the court costs to prove it.

A man faces charges after a hunting dog was shot and killed last week.
According to Peterborough County OPP, on Nov. 10, a beagle was reported to have been shot and killed.

Investigation revealed the dog had been tracking with two other dogs when it entered upon private property and was shot.

Mark Greco, 35, of Smith-Ennismore-Lakefield Township, is charged with unlawfully killing an animal, mischief under $5,000 and using a firearm while committing an offence.

Fred
02-08-2012, 05:22 AM
I would venture a guess if you shoot a hunting dog in VA you will lose! I don't think they'd care if it was a risk to your only living male child!!

Fred
02-08-2012, 07:08 AM
From my prior experiance with dog hunting, I lived in VA almost 10 years, the biggest problems are the fact trespass means nothing, dogs push the deer all over the county, and if you are not brought up in the hunt club than you are an outsider. It is the biggest "Good Ole Boy" system around. They will "welcome" Land owners and dog owners only to use thier land to shoot or use thier dogs. Again from my experiances with 5-6 different clubs in that area, they usually offer meat to dog owners NOT members and meat to land owners NOT members. Most of the clubs charge a $20 per day guest fee to hunt, and you are looked at as an outsider. They will either give you a stand known to not produce or they put you in the stand no one else wants. Those are additional reasons I don't want them on my land. Once I build and actually live there I guess we will see how it looks but I have a few ideas to keep people off my land, keeping dogs off is almost impossible

lakngulf
02-08-2012, 09:43 AM
The problem is respect for property, and respect for the owner, and respect for the poor dogs. I am sure there are many, many reasonable, ethical, lawful, and enjoyable Hunting-With-Dogs clubs. That has not been my experience. I do not like the scene of orange-clad hunters parked on the side of public roads, usually about 1/2 mile apart, "looking for their dogs", with guns loaded.

Fortunately, the farm land I hunt on borders some national forest, and hunting with dogs is not allowed in a large area around me. But where I live is another county, and another story. A few years back this skinny hound showed up at my house, no dog tag, but had the typical orange band around his neck. I called him "slim", and he was in need of some nourishment. Kept him with my lab for a week or so and got him looking better. I knew he was a "deer dog" so I let word out at the neighborhood store/gathering spot that I had him. Got a call and we agreed to meet at the store so the owner could get his dog. Got there, the guys grabbed slim from my cage, and "THREW" him into the cage in their truck. Mistreat me and my land is one thing, mistreat a helpless dog is another. I regretted what I had done.

brutusbeefcake
02-09-2012, 11:00 PM
I cringe every time I think of the image using dogs to hunt, gives the general public. Many of these hunters are very disrespectful of property. Coyote hunters are really bad as well.
Would there be such a thing as fencing multiple 1-2 acre plots or preferred bedding areas on your farm that would be VERY thick so the deer could stay hiding even though the dog maybe close.
Another idea would be to have some sort of stink hole or spots across your property where a dog would run by and couldn't resist the smell and would just have to roll around in it. This hole would contain some of the rankest smelling goo a guy could put together. If you could get them to regularly roll in it the dog owner would get sick of running his dog in that area. :p

Gator
02-10-2012, 06:34 AM
some of the rankest smelling

You just perfectly described every hound deer dog I've been around. They could care less what that POS smells like. My first deer hunting experience was dog hunting and I despise it. It's not hunting for one! 2. It's the worst treatment of animals ever as previously mentioned. I've witnessed many of dogs get shot b/c they wouldn't hunt.
No more of this thread for me. Gets my blood boiling every time :mad:

Fred
02-10-2012, 06:36 AM
You just perfectly described every hound deer dog I've been around. They could care less what that POS smells like. My first deer hunting experience was dog hunting and I despise it. It's not hunting for one! 2. It's the worst treatment of animals ever as previously mentioned. I've witnessed many of dogs get shot b/c they wouldn't hunt.
No more of this thread for me. Gets my blood boiling every time :mad:

Tjis is all too true. The dogs are kenneled no where near home so smell isn't of concern, and I too have seen hounds shot

brutusbeefcake
02-11-2012, 08:36 AM
I cringe every time I think of the image using dogs to hunt, gives the general public.

I'm talking about using dogs for deer, coyotes & fox for the most part.
using dogs for rabbits, birds etc I have no problem with if them if they are well trained. Even this though would get irritating if my neighbor continually ran his rabbit dogs kicking up rabbits along the line fence.
I hear what you guys are saying and that's why it's such a black eye to hunters in the general public.

Would the multiple fenced safe areas actually be a possibility? most fawns would be able to jump a 4 ft fence by the time hunting season arrives I would think.

huntingpharmacist
02-11-2012, 09:42 AM
My yearly observation with dog hunters is that they don't actually hunt. It is more of a social gathering in which they let their dogs out on the side of the road while they sit around and talk. Then they tell stories about how far their dogs traveled when they picked them up. It must be bragging rights if your pack of dogs can run 20 miles away over several days.

A few years ago I was leaving my farm going to lunch and a pretty big 140" buck chased a doe across the street. A few cars stopped in awe at the spectacle and beauty of the buck. One of the passers was a dog hunter who immediately got out of his truck and called all his buddies to bring their dogs. I asked him what he was doing and he said he was going to let the dogs out on him. I told him that he would chase the buck into the next county but he didn't care. Furthermore there were no hunters set up. He just wanted to run his dogs after this big buck.

fiveyear
02-11-2012, 12:05 PM
I grew up dog hunting. My family also still hunted the AM and PM in tree stands. This was back in the 1970's. It was fun and the social gathering and going to set up properly was all part of it. I agree it is hard to see what you are shooting at. We used shotguns and spent a lot of days retrieving dogs on our property and if they managed to get off the neighbors would call and we would go get our dogs. This is back in the CB radio days.

I also think it had its place back when there were large expanses to hunt. We hunted about 20,000 acres and had maybe 20 members. With family it was hard to hunt the area. Thick and difficult to see as well.

It was exciting and still love to hear the sound of a pack of dogs baying on an animal. Deer are a lot faster and more agile and able to get away from the dogs. The dogs may run to the next county but the deer rarely do.

I have grown out of that phase of my life. They are tough with their dogs and rarely cut them a break. These are not house pets they are working dogs. I'm not for the mistreatment of any pet but these dogs run through some awful stuff in pursuit of their quarry. The least of their worries is being thrown into a dog box.

I also agree that there are as many bad dog hunters out there as good ones. I haven't hunted with dogs since the early 1980's. I have hunted quail and used dogs to track wounded deer. There is a beauty to watching a dog work.

On my lease in SC and GA we had neighbors that dog hunted. I saw my share of abuses at the end of the season. Getting permission to run a wounded deer, etc. Like the other post when they see a deer cross a road they want to get their dog on it.

The days gone by when there were vast areas to hunt it had a place. Getting deer up out of thick cover. The deer were by far the winners. I don't think we had any more deer hanging as a result of dogs. In fact the best hunters were always those that still hunted. (Best=successful)

I think the only place it is still viable is on large tracts of land where the dogs can be released and picked up on the same parcel. In 20 years at my lease in GA I have a pile of stories of dogs being released to run our woods. I do agree with restrictions they have placed in GA and would like to see better restrictions.

To the original poster fence it. Maybe electric livestock fence would be helpful and less expensive. 4-5 strands in the first three feet allowing deer to jump over. Solar powered. Talk to the dog runners and see if they will avoid your area. Doubt that will work but worth a try. Like others said read the rules and document the abuses to the local game officer. Pics trail cams etc.

Working dogs have a place. Running and retrieving livestock cattle, goats, hogs, etc. Hunting Dove retrieval, quail hunting, duck retrieval, goose retrieval, bear hunting, cougar hunting, rabbit squirrel, etc. I also think dogs have a place retrieving wounded deer, shed hunting,etc.

I do not believe in the mistreatment of dogs. I also would agree that most people that mistreat dogs also mistreat humans. One day theirs will come.

Oh and one last thing. I killed my first deer running from dogs. They were aying in a swamp and he was slipping out the side and ran into me.(1976) I also got my first Mule deer(1985) slipping out from a drive done by humans. We did drives the entire week I was there in CO. We pushed deer and Elk all week. The elk I got to shoot was running after being jumped.

I've used dogs to help retrieve by brothers first deer. We used a dog to retrieve my daughters first doe taken with a rifle.

They have a purpose and hopefully it will evolve over time. People hunt less than they used to and so maybe dogs will hunt less in the future.

OH and for the record Matt Duffy has land that is as thick as any land I've hunted in the south. There are fields hardwood bottoms that are open and replanted CRP tree areas that are so thick you can only walk through them where the deer have eaten a path.

Fred
02-11-2012, 04:04 PM
This is a well thought out and well worded thread. I too killed my first deer off hounds. I hunted them for 5-6 years, and I still would (likely will when all is said and done) however like you posted I have outgrown this stage. In VA particurally though it is so predominant, its almost impossable to groom my small piece to hold or attract any deer hence my reasoning for the original post. I grew up dog hunting. My family also still hunted the AM and PM in tree stands. This was back in the 1970's. It was fun and the social gathering and going to set up properly was all part of it. I agree it is hard to see what you are shooting at. We used shotguns and spent a lot of days retrieving dogs on our property and if they managed to get off the neighbors would call and we would go get our dogs. This is back in the CB radio days.

I also think it had its place back when there were large expanses to hunt. We hunted about 20,000 acres and had maybe 20 members. With family it was hard to hunt the area. Thick and difficult to see as well.

It was exciting and still love to hear the sound of a pack of dogs baying on an animal. Deer are a lot faster and more agile and able to get away from the dogs. The dogs may run to the next county but the deer rarely do.

I have grown out of that phase of my life. They are tough with their dogs and rarely cut them a break. These are not house pets they are working dogs. I'm not for the mistreatment of any pet but these dogs run through some awful stuff in pursuit of their quarry. The least of their worries is being thrown into a dog box.

I also agree that there are as many bad dog hunters out there as good ones. I haven't hunted with dogs since the early 1980's. I have hunted quail and used dogs to track wounded deer. There is a beauty to watching a dog work.

On my lease in SC and GA we had neighbors that dog hunted. I saw my share of abuses at the end of the season. Getting permission to run a wounded deer, etc. Like the other post when they see a deer cross a road they want to get their dog on it.

The days gone by when there were vast areas to hunt it had a place. Getting deer up out of thick cover. The deer were by far the winners. I don't think we had any more deer hanging as a result of dogs. In fact the best hunters were always those that still hunted. (Best=successful)

I think the only place it is still viable is on large tracts of land where the dogs can be released and picked up on the same parcel. In 20 years at my lease in GA I have a pile of stories of dogs being released to run our woods. I do agree with restrictions they have placed in GA and would like to see better restrictions.

To the original poster fence it. Maybe electric livestock fence would be helpful and less expensive. 4-5 strands in the first three feet allowing deer to jump over. Solar powered. Talk to the dog runners and see if they will avoid your area. Doubt that will work but worth a try. Like others said read the rules and document the abuses to the local game officer. Pics trail cams etc.

Working dogs have a place. Running and retrieving livestock cattle, goats, hogs, etc. Hunting Dove retrieval, quail hunting, duck retrieval, goose retrieval, bear hunting, cougar hunting, rabbit squirrel, etc. I also think dogs have a place retrieving wounded deer, shed hunting,etc.

I do not believe in the mistreatment of dogs. I also would agree that most people that mistreat dogs also mistreat humans. One day theirs will come.

Oh and one last thing. I killed my first deer running from dogs. They were aying in a swamp and he was slipping out the side and ran into me.(1976) I also got my first Mule deer(1985) slipping out from a drive done by humans. We did drives the entire week I was there in CO. We pushed deer and Elk all week. The elk I got to shoot was running after being jumped.

I've used dogs to help retrieve by brothers first deer. We used a dog to retrieve my daughters first doe taken with a rifle.

They have a purpose and hopefully it will evolve over time. People hunt less than they used to and so maybe dogs will hunt less in the future.

OH and for the record Matt Duffy has land that is as thick as any land I've hunted in the south. There are fields hardwood bottoms that are open and replanted CRP tree areas that are so thick you can only walk through them where the deer have eaten a path.

Hoseman
02-11-2012, 07:07 PM
There are a few bad apples in every crowd. My brother and several friends have deer hounds and none of them mistreat their dogs. They have too much money and time invested in their dogs to abuse them.