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Freeborn
12-25-2011, 05:43 PM
Is there a general/average cost per square foot I could use to estimate what a new pole building would costs? My farm is in NW Minnesota and I need to build a pole shed for storage. I know there are many options so lets assume a fairly basic unit with one primary door and walls tall enough to park something 15 foot tall.

One additonal item, any recommendations on types or thickness of concrete? The heaviest piece of equipment I will have is a 50 HP tractor.

Thanks much.

scrimshaw33
12-25-2011, 05:51 PM
You left out size of shed you want.

Freeborn
12-25-2011, 07:03 PM
You left out size of shed you want.
Well, I didnít so obviously I donít know much about pole-barns.:D

I was thinking of something in the 35x50 size. Based on your comment there must be economies of scale the bigger you go? If there is, are there increments or standard sizes that make sense?

Thanks.

jack23
12-25-2011, 07:12 PM
6" concrete will cost about 2.50/sqft

Bnhpr
12-25-2011, 11:29 PM
Is there a general/average cost per square foot I could use to estimate what a new pole building would costs? My farm is in NW Minnesota and I need to build a pole shed for storage. I know there are many options so lets assume a fairly basic unit with one primary door and walls tall enough to park something 15 foot tall.

One additonal item, any recommendations on types or thickness of concrete? The heaviest piece of equipment I will have is a 50 HP tractor.

Thanks much.

I built a 30x60 post and beam barn w/concrete slab for $53k. It has a second floor, 12 windows, 2 service doors, and two overhead doors.

Concrete has 2" styro under and rebar 2' on centers.

foggy
12-26-2011, 10:01 AM
My SIL recently had a pole shed built. It measures 36x48 and had 14 foot sidewalls and a 12x 16 overhead insulated door. Non-insulated building and no windows. It had overhangs all around, a walk door, a second smaller overhead door, and good ventilation in the soffits and such. The building cost him 20,000 erected on his level site.

He put 4" concrete with rebar on 2' centers along with a vapor barrier.....which cost him 2.25 psf (IIRC). Another inch or two of concrete would be appropriate if you have heavier loads. His need is for a small tractor and ATV's and such. Homeowner size items.

He had some excavating costs above those above.....and his electrical costs.

Freeborn
12-26-2011, 12:13 PM
Thanks Foggy,

I appreciate the info. Your SILís barn sounds like what I am looking for. Did your SIL select a specific brand or did he go with a general contractor who built it himself? You see allot of pole-barns with their brand-name labeled on their peek. Iím not certain if there are allot of differences between brands but with a standard barn you would think they would be similar. I thought I would begin by going to the local lumber yard nearest my farm (Parkers Prairie) and see what they recommend for contractors.

Thanks again.

biglakeba$$
12-26-2011, 12:33 PM
I have a distant relative in OTC that builds polebarns.

He built my dads. I can call my dad for specifics and contact info if interested.

UGUIDE
12-26-2011, 01:58 PM
Lester built me a 24X70 for $24,000. If I am doing the math right that is $14/sq. ft..

This is with out concrete and 1 double wide garage door and a service door and & 8/12 pitch roof.

Lester does a real good job.

Freeborn
12-26-2011, 07:08 PM
Thanks UGUIDE, Good information.

I see you went with a longer but narrower shed. Personal preference or do you think it works better for equipment?

Nice steep pitch, should be good for shedding snow. Your choice of pitch must have been an option? Most sheds look like they have no more than a 6 in 12 pitch.

Thanks again.

UGUIDE
12-27-2011, 10:55 AM
Thanks UGUIDE, Good information.

I see you went with a longer but narrower shed. Personal preference or do you think it works better for equipment?

Nice steep pitch, should be good for shedding snow. Your choice of pitch must have been an option? Most sheds look like they have no more than a 6 in 12 pitch.

Thanks again.

Freeborn, I'd go with a 4X12 pitch. You can walk on it and it will shed snow just fine. I fell off the damn roof putting in a vent pipe. Cannot walk on 8/12.

I used my building for 3/4 living and rest garage. Just have a little utility tractor so no high door needed. I did end up putting concrete floor in and apron around the outsides too. Also did 2 ' eves which I recommend.

tractorg25
12-27-2011, 11:46 AM
I just built a 18 x 24 x 11 ft eves with 4 in concrete open center for lift. total cost with one walk in door and a 12 x 12 roll up door $5500.00.

laurencenarcisi
12-30-2011, 07:28 PM
Mine was 24x48 with a 4" slab (4500 psi). As best I can remember it ran about $23k.

Best thing I can tell you is building a barn is like buying a tractor. Think about how big you want it then go 50% bigger. Its bigger than my camp and I still wish I had more room. You will buy equipment, start storing stuff, store seed and spray. Set up a work bench, storage, repairs and maintenance on equipment is a lot easier in a lit shed with a hard flat surface than it is in the dark in the cold mud.

I have my generator, 2 tractors and 4-wheelers in there. Put it up in 08 and its getting tight.

Gonna put in two tiers of shelves over the winter cause I'm out of storage.

Hell this is America. You dont need someone from Texas to tell you bigger is ALWAYS better....unless its a tumor.:))

foggy
01-01-2012, 01:40 AM
Thanks Foggy,

I appreciate the info. Your SILís barn sounds like what I am looking for. Did your SIL select a specific brand or did he go with a general contractor who built it himself? You see allot of pole-barns with their brand-name labeled on their peek. Iím not certain if there are allot of differences between brands but with a standard barn you would think they would be similar. I thought I would begin by going to the local lumber yard nearest my farm (Parkers Prairie) and see what they recommend for contractors.

Thanks again.

Sorry about the slow response.......just finished a drive to phoenix az.....where I'm gonna spend the month. :) (nearly 80 degrees today :D)

My SIL priced a couple different brands of steel buildings.....and ended up buying from Ameribuilt out of St Cloud. These guys are really good folks to work with. I watched for a few hours when they started....and they had a great crew.....and put up a very nice building.

It seems most of the builders we talked to do similar construction and materials, and all seem to have a pretty good product IF there primary biz is putting up pole buildings. There is a bit of an art to doing the construction tho.....and a good crew is essential IMO.

I think you need to price a building at 3 or 4 places to get some competitive bidding. I belive you will find the right guy for you....if you get that many folks to give you a price. We also liked the product Cleary had to offer...and that's who built my shed a few years ago.

Freeborn
01-01-2012, 08:44 AM
nearly 80 degrees today
80 degrees? Tuff duty! Iíll be there in a dozen years or so. How did you pick Arizona?

We have had some luck on Pelican over the holidays; fresh walleye taste great any time of the year.

I went to Ameribuiltís website and it looks like their building frames are all steel, is that correct? I also see they advertise their buildings can withstand 180 miles per hour winds. Nice feature out on the prairie.

Iím looking to have four bids and Iím thinking two manufactured builders; (Ameribuilt and Lester) look like good choices and then Iíll get two bids from local builders.

Thanks for the info.

stumpgrinder
01-01-2012, 09:51 AM
I have a 30x60x12 all metal building with 20' of covered patio built on to one 60' side, and 10' of covered patio built on to both 30' sides with one side partially closed in. With 4" slab total cost was $45K... 5 yrs ago. If I remember right, total cost for just the building and slab it sits on was around $28K. Like I said, all metal, 160 mph wind load rating.

And FTR, I've been parking a 70 hp tractor on that 4" slab since it was built with no problems.

Bnhpr
01-01-2012, 11:30 AM
The cost of mine was $20 per ft2, but that includes 900 ft2 of it finished and insulated with pine boards.

foggy
01-01-2012, 11:32 AM
80 degrees? Tuff duty! Iíll be there in a dozen years or so. How did you pick Arizona?

We have had some luck on Pelican over the holidays; fresh walleye taste great any time of the year.

I went to Ameribuiltís website and it looks like their building frames are all steel, is that correct? I also see they advertise their buildings can withstand 180 miles per hour winds. Nice feature out on the prairie.

Iím looking to have four bids and Iím thinking two manufactured builders; (Ameribuilt and Lester) look like good choices and then Iíll get two bids from local builders.

Thanks for the info.

The building my SIL put up is a laminated pole building....not a steel frame building. A steel frame building is going to cost allot more than a wood frame pole building. I've had a few commercial buildings put up with a steel frame.....and I have nothing against steel.....but for a storage building I'd save the money and buy a wood frame (at least in MN).

These days most of the wood frame builidngs use a laminated post system.....where they use three 2x8's to make a post. These 2" boards recieve the wood preservatives better and the do not warp as easily as full dimentional posts. They also have some benefit for attaching the trusses in a sandwich fashion for improved strength.

Steiny
01-01-2012, 11:36 AM
I had a simple, un-insulated 20' x 40' pole bldg with three large OH doors built about a year ago for pretty close to $16,000 or $20 / per SF.

Poured the slab and wired it up with basic lighting and a few outlets for another +/- $5000.

Build it bigger than you think you need. You won't regret it.
My main barn is 40' x 60'. Built this second un-heated, un-insulated one for farm implements, boats, tractor, etc.

Freeborn
01-01-2012, 12:52 PM
Bnhpr, very Nice building, I like the cupola. What pitch is your roof? I always wanted a barn with a cupola and plan on having one on mine. I still need to determine what pitch roof I want for aesthetics and snow removal. I am thinking 8/12 which should manage the snow and look aesthetically good.

This building is strictly a cold storage building for my farm equipment. In the future, closer to when I retire, I will be looking at a building with a living place on the second floor. This building will be a smaller building than the current one I am scoping.

What is the group using for lighting? I have been in many barns where the lighting is terrible. Any suggestions?

foggy
01-01-2012, 01:28 PM
Roof pitch and snow loading can be a bit decieving. Sometimes a flatter pitch will allow the snow to blow off the roof better than a steeply sloped roof. I'd ask the builder for some rec's in this area. Also, a metal roof allows snow to slide off easily.

For my own use....I built a slightly smaller and lower building than you are interested in (30x40x12' high). I dont have any windows (security) so I put a center ridge light along the lenth of the building....and it also allows for a ridge vent at the peak. I really like the ambient light provided by this set up down the center of the building. Seldom do I need any electric lights.

I've seen other guys that swear by lites at the top of their sidewalls....just under the eves. They claim they are less suscespatble to hail damage. I suppose they may have a point....but so far I have not had any issues with mine. I think it would take some big hail stones to damage 'em....and at that point the roof is likely toast.

Steiny
01-01-2012, 03:01 PM
If you are building a shop where you will be working in there, I would recommend the high efficiency T-8 flourescent fixtures with the skinny little bulbs. They come on fast, put out lots of light, and use electricity efficently.

Regarding fiberglass wall lights and skylights. I am a professional builder of commercial / industrial steel buildings. I always try to steer clients away from these. They usually wind up leaking eventually, and they are a big heat loss area. Would rather see someone put decent insulated pane windows up high in a sidewall. They let in lots of light, and if you put them up high, it's tough for someone to break in.

Freeborn
01-01-2012, 03:51 PM
Thanks Steiny, very good info. I will have a workbench and this barn is where I will be doing maintenance on my equipment. I would probably not have to have the whole area covered by bright light but at least the front half of the barn.

Regarding fiberglass wall lights and skylights. I am a professional builder of commercial / industrial steel buildings. I always try to steer clients away from these.
I have never heard this, are the wall lights/skylights a two piece panel with a seam?

Again, thanks for the info.

Jim Timber
01-01-2012, 04:13 PM
The light panels are fiberglass and have a different coefficient of expansion than the steel they mate to, so they move a lot.

I got a panel of the stuff for a skylight over my breezeway between a floating slab building and one with footings, and it was broken before it ever made it into the frame (very weak material). I went with 3/16" acrylic after that, and it grew a lot too. Now I'm eliminating the window entirely and just making a trough to shed the water out the sides since the two structures cannot be rigidly attached across the roofs.

Steiny
01-01-2012, 05:32 PM
Wall lights / sky-lights for pole buildings are generally just a transluscent fiberglass panel the exact same profile as the metal roof/wall panels. You just "nest" them in position with the metal panels with some sealant (caulk)tape in the joint. Every joint / lap of the panels is another potential leak.

Anytime you can go peak to eave with a single metal roof sheet, or base to eave with a single metal wall sheet, you reduce opportunities for leaks.

Bnhpr
01-01-2012, 11:30 PM
Bnhpr, very Nice building, I like the cupola. What pitch is your roof? I always wanted a barn with a cupola and plan on having one on mine. I still need to determine what pitch roof I want for aesthetics and snow removal. I am thinking 8/12 which should manage the snow and look aesthetically good.

This building is strictly a cold storage building for my farm equipment. In the future, closer to when I retire, I will be looking at a building with a living place on the second floor. This building will be a smaller building than the current one I am scoping.

What is the group using for lighting? I have been in many barns where the lighting is terrible. Any suggestions?

The pitch is 12, to maximize the second floor (16x60 with 3/4" advantech decking). Attic trusses make this easy and fast to assemble.

I have stairs that go into the cuppola.

This picture is the insulated portion (my shop) if you notice lower right is a monitor heater.

On the other side, second floor of the building is 6 clear polycarbonate 8' light panels spaced equally for light.

4' flourescent fixtures light the building. They are wire with std 120v plugs.

Ben

Bnhpr
01-01-2012, 11:47 PM
Sorry bout the two donkies in the way, but behind you can see the building construction. 6x6pt, with carriage bolts. 2x12's bolted at the top, sandwiching the posts, attic trusses sit on tom, hurricane straps. Posts are strapped horizontally and wrapped in tyvek. The sheathing is vertical 10" shiplap pine, pre-stained.

This is the unheated portion of the barn.

Ben

Freeborn
01-02-2012, 01:33 AM
Nice design, I like the looks and function of the post and beam.

That deer looks to be the size of a donkey, did you weigh him?

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

Natty Bumppo
01-02-2012, 08:22 AM
Hey freeborn...I've been following this thread and thought I'd chime in. Like you, I need to build a large barn/workshop/hay storage and I too was thinking of a pole barn. This past summer I cut all of the joints for a smaller project...a 12x16 timber frame sugar house. As you can see I included a lean-to on each side...one for my tractor and one for dry wood storage. The inside has a loft for my treestands, hunting gear, and a place to keep my hunting clothing during the season.

I put it up in Sept. with 12 friends and a ton of food and beer. It was one of the most rewarding things I have ever done.

Having built this, I am now thining about building my larger stucture the same way...not really sure how big? Maybe 28 x 40? I just wanted to share this with you. Pole barns are great....relatively inexpensive, easy to build, quick, etc. IF you have the time to cut the joints yourself and have access to a small family owned sawmill, a timber frame is no more expensive. It will stand for 150 years. It will withstand weather and winds that will topple pole parns. And you will have memories of cuting the joints and assembling the frame that will last forever.

Good luck with your project.

Natty

P.S. I had NO timber framing experience before I started...I picked up a few books, took my time, and enjoyed the entire process.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bigschuss/Sugar%20Shack/SugarShack27.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bigschuss/Sugar%20Shack/PC290001.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bigschuss/Sugar%20Shack/PB200027.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bigschuss/Sugar%20Shack/PB200030.jpg

Freeborn
01-02-2012, 09:03 AM
Very nice barn! I like that type of a project and have built one utility building at my home. My farm is 150 miles from my home so that type of a project is not in the cards now but could be a strong possibility in the future. Seeing these post and beam building has my wheels thinking that would be a great design for a future building, for a living space on my farm. I do have a source for oak timbers near my place as there is a large Amish population to the east of me that has a mill.

If you donít mind sharing, what books/material/forums did you find most useful. I always enjoy reading and learning and with it being winter it is perfect timing.

Thanks for sharing!

Natty Bumppo
01-02-2012, 09:39 AM
Very nice barn! I like that type of a project and have built one utility building at my home. My farm is 150 miles from my home so that type of a project is not in the cards now but could be a strong possibility in the future. Seeing these post and beam building has my wheels thinking that would be a great design for a future building, for a living space on my farm. I do have a source for oak timbers near my place as there is a large Amish population to the east of me that has a mill.

If you donít mind sharing, what books/material/forums did you find most useful. I always enjoy reading and learning and with it being winter it is perfect timing.

Thanks for sharing!

The only on-line resources I used were to buy the tools I used...chisel, forstner bit, auger bit, mallets, etc.

I used 4 or 5 reference books for the entire project, but 2 stood out as the best. Jack Sobon is the father of the rebirth of timber framing. I used his book, Timber Frame Construction: All About Post and Beam Building. I also used Ted Benson's Building the Timber Frame House: The Revival of a Forgotten Art .

Both books detail how to build a 12x16 timber frame. I changed a few things to suit my needs. For example, I used a 10' wall instead of an 8'. I have a partial loft on the inside. And obviously I added the 2 lean-to's on each side and the cupola.

If you have access to Amish sawyers ad oak beams, that would be just about as ideal as it gets.

Natty

foggy
01-02-2012, 11:29 AM
Nice "pole sheds"! ;)

My lake cottage was built in the 60's using post and beam construction. The three main beams are one-peice and measure 8" x 16" x 30' long.....and they are scoll cut on each end. The roof decking is full dimentional 2" x 8" T&G cedar......and it has many other high-quality lumber uses like this.

Gotta wonder what that bill of materials would cost today.

Back on topic tho......When I built my pole shed out at my deer land, it appeared like I would be unable to get electricty. So, I spent some time looking into a means of providing some light in my shed. I've been around the building materials game enough to know I do NOT like skylights or fiberglass panels either....as others have stated. The fewer openings the better!

However, I did find a good ridge cap that is both translucent and provides for a vent. It is a one piece affair at the ridge with the "brillo-pad" venting on either side....thus it does not add another layer to the roof build. (If you dont like it some day...it could be replaced with a steel ridge cap.)

This ridge cap / vent / light provides GREAT ambient light down the center of my un-insulated pole shed. It has good overlap and it's supposed to take the sunlight and what ever mother nature can dish out.

I really like the light it affords and have not had moisture problems as I have a good vapor barrier under my concrete and good vents at my soffits and a good venting ridge cap.

I rest my case. ;)

Freeborn
01-02-2012, 11:51 AM
Thanks Foggy, again good information. Do you have a link or the name of the ridge cap you installed?

Obviously I have some homework to do but I enjoy the details as well as the process of this type of project. By spring I should easily have my building specked and ready for construction.

Thanks again.

foggy
01-02-2012, 02:07 PM
I do not remember the name of the ridge vent/lite.....but it is offered by the folks that built my pole building: Cleary. It was not a very expensive affair and it does kill a few birds with one stone. The ridge vent / light provides about an 8" wide light down the center....and I seldom use any electric light.

As said, when I built my building I was not sure about ever getting electric power......but when I figured out a way to get electric service through my neighbors land (for a great deal, no less!) I got hooked up before my deal evaporated.

If you have electric available, you may want to forgo such a set-up, but I like what I have and thus far it's been good. Even with electric available, I beleive I would keep the ridge lite for my situation.

Steiny
01-02-2012, 06:26 PM
Cool barns !