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outdoorstom
02-28-2011, 03:01 PM
You'd think with NY being in such dire straits financially, they'd hit these guys up for more money. Personally, I think if they really hammered people it would make them think twice about doing stuff like this. At least the last guy got thrown in the slammer.



■ Richard G. Elliott, 62, Ogdensburg, paid $100 in fines and $75 in court fees for failing to tag a deer as required and transporting an untagged deer Nov. 9 in the town of DePeyster. He appeared Dec. 9 in Town Court.

■ Jamie S. Sibley, 28, Gouverneur, paid $50 in fines for failing to tag a deer as required Nov. 14 in the town of Gouverneur. He appeared Jan. 23 in Town Court.

■ Scott M. Massey, 47, Dexter, paid $100 in fines and $75 in court fees for using someone else's carcass tag Nov. 22 in the town of Gouverneur. He appeared Dec. 16 in Town Court.

■ Ervin E. Francis IV, 21, North Lawrence, was sentenced to spend 180 days in jail for hunting deer without a license, taking deer with use of a spotlight and with the aid of a motor vehicle, hunting after legal hours, possessing a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle, using an artificial light while possessing a firearm, trespassing and shooting from across a public highway on Nov. 11, 2009. He appeared Feb. 7 in Town Court.

bush hill
02-28-2011, 04:16 PM
NY is a poachers dream. The fines tresspassers and poachers get is crazy, why own land when you can just get a slap on the wrist? I wish they would add a zero to those fine amounts and see how many people get their act together and quit breaking the law! Sorry for the rant but this is something that drives me nuts. I own a lot of road frontage and get ton's of road hunters put put putting along down the road all gun season. Makes me furious :mad:

Nova
02-28-2011, 04:50 PM
Wow, that last guy should be spending 10 years in the clink and never able to hunt again...although he wasn't really hunting. Man he did all kinds of wrong!

woodsman324
02-28-2011, 08:05 PM
The guy that I had pinched last year back in NY just for tresspassing paid $100.00 fine and $35.00 court fee. The last guy on the list probably didn't have the money for the fine so he took time. That just puts burden back on the taxpayers to house him and feed him. I think it's high time to revise the way we handle these deals.

qdm4me
02-28-2011, 09:18 PM
does DEC offer a link on their homepage to obtain this information??
i would like to see the fines in my area..
thanks

Wayne
02-28-2011, 09:24 PM
In the mean time continue letting child molesters and murderers out of prison to save money. Then close the prisons and give the communities $10,000,000.

Yeah raising fines on the real criminals like guys illegally tagging or taking deer will balance the budget ?

woodsman324
02-28-2011, 09:42 PM
In the mean time continue letting child molesters and murderers out of prison to save money. Then close the prisons and give the communities $10,000,000.

Yeah raising fines on the real criminals like guys illegally tagging or taking deer will balance the budget ?

I don't think fines on wildlife related infractions have much to do with balancing the budget especially the general budget. The point we're trying to make is the fines should be enough punishment to stop the behavior. IMO the last guy should have got a fine of several thousand dollars and if he can't pay it throw him in jail for 6 months and he still owes the fine when he gets out with no statute of limitations on the fine so it will follow him till he pays it. And lose all sporting priviledges at least till he pays. As far as closing a prison to save money but then giving the communities 10 million? How does that save? That would never happen but if they wanted a balanced budget they wouldn't give away the money they saved.

Wayne
02-28-2011, 10:05 PM
[QUOTE=outdoorstom;375707]You'd think with NY being in such dire straits financially, they hit these guys up for more money.

Woodsman324, If this post is about detering wildlife violations and not about generating revenues for NYS, then why was it premised with the above statement ?

My reply was meant to be sarcastic.
Also, you must not be up to speed on proposals in the new Gov's budget ?
He plans to close down several prisons, and then to offset the loss of jobs in these communities, he will give them 10 million $ to magically create new jobs. I agree, how will that save money and create jobs ?

crimson n' camo
02-28-2011, 10:13 PM
Alabama recently raised the minimum amounts of most, if not all, of our game infractions concerning deer. It was due time for the change because the prior fines were barely a slap on the wrist. Most fines were only a few hundred dollars.

My buddy caught a guy spotlighting in front of his house this past season and he ended up getting charged with most of the stuff that the last guy on the list was charged with. His total was $3500 in fines and his hunting license were suspended for three years. I hope this helps to curtail some of the issues we have in our state with poachers and such.

Wayne
02-28-2011, 10:28 PM
Also, I was the NYS Justice of the Peace in my town for a short period. So I know how the system works. When it comes to DEC violations, anyone in NY that believes it's about detering the violation and not about generating revenues, is living in a fantasy land.

outdoorstom
02-28-2011, 10:51 PM
I wasn't trying to imply hitting these guys with bigger fines would take care of our budget problems, I know better than that. My point was that there should definitely be bigger fines. This would hopefully deter some dirtbags, plus put more money in the State's pocket.

woodsman324
03-01-2011, 01:17 AM
[QUOTE=outdoorstom;375707]You'd think with NY being in such dire straits financially, they hit these guys up for more money.

Woodsman324, If this post is about detering wildlife violations and not about generating revenues for NYS, then why was it premised with the above statement ?

My reply was meant to be sarcastic.
Also, you must not be up to speed on proposals in the new Gov's budget ?
He plans to close down several prisons, and then to offset the loss of jobs in these communities, he will give them 10 million $ to magically create new jobs. I agree, how will that save money and create jobs ?

I guess I missed the OP's first sentence and I did go back and look before I posted. I do try to keep up on the news back there but hadn't heard about the proposal of closing prisons. Sorry about that.

smstone22
03-01-2011, 01:21 AM
They arent that strict in TN. Not even close in my county, wouldnt even give a day in jail much less 180. Spotlighters might end up with 300 in fines and thats counting court costs.

Roadrunner
03-01-2011, 01:53 AM
So this guy breaks the most laws and we have to pay to house him? I sure hope there are fines to follow.



■ Ervin E. Francis IV, 21, North Lawrence, was sentenced to spend 180 days in jail for hunting deer without a license, taking deer with use of a spotlight and with the aid of a motor vehicle, hunting after legal hours, possessing a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle, using an artificial light while possessing a firearm, trespassing and shooting from across a public highway on Nov. 11, 2009. He appeared Feb. 7 in Town Court.

Deerfly
03-01-2011, 09:09 AM
Here is an example of the fines in PA
" FIVE MAINE RESIDENTS CHARGED IN
ONE OF THE LARGEST CASES IN STATE HISTORY
Defendants accused of multiple felony poaching crimes in Bradford County, Pennsylvania



HARRISBURG – Following a six-month investigation by the Pennsylvania Game Commission and Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, five residents of Maine – four adults and a 17-year-old juvenile – were charged with more than 250 counts of violating the Game and Wildlife Code and the Crimes Code in the one of the largest wildlife crime sprees ever detected in the Commonwealth’s history.

Following a six-month investigation by the Pennsylvania Game Commission and Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife Bureau of Warden Service, five Maine residents – four adults and a 17-year-old juvenile – were charged with more than 250 counts of violating the Game and Wildlife Code and the Crimes Code. From left to right are: Carlton John Enos, 19, Everett H. (Lenny) Leonard, 59, and Everett Tyler Leonard, 31, all of Turner, Maine; and Lucien H. Clavet, 44, of Monmouth, Maine.

Get Image

The group is charged with multiple counts of killing deer at night with a light, killing deer in closed season and killing deer in excess of season bag limits in Armenia Township and surrounding municipalities, Bradford County. During the months of October and December, the group is accused of killing dozens of deer unlawfully, including three large-racked bucks, during the state’s early muzzleloader season and regular firearms deer seasons. The group also has been charged with numerous wildlife crimes in Maine.
“This investigation is a prime example of why it was so critically important for the General Assembly to have enacted legislation to increase the fines and penalties for chronic poachers last year,” said Carl G. Roe, Game Commission executive director. “The increased fines and penalties addressed the exact type of violations allegedly committed by these individuals, which involved killing multiple deer out of season, at night with spotlights and significantly over the bag limits.”
In late 2010, Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife Bureau of Warden Service contacted the Game Commission with information that Everett Tyler Leonard and E.H. “Lenny” Leonard were suspected of killing a large number of deer over the legal limit in both Pennsylvania and Maine.
A joint investigation between the Game Commission and the Maine Warden Service was initiated and continued throughout the deer hunting seasons in both states. Game Commission Special Operations Division investigators conducted surveillance on the group’s illegal hunting activities in Pennsylvania during the white-tailed deer hunting seasons.

From left to right, Everett Tyler Leonard, 31, Everett H. (Lenny) Leonard, 59, both of Turner, Maine, proudly pose with two antlered deer that they and three other Maine residents were charged with illegally killing as part of one of the largest wildlife crime sprees in Pennsylvania history that spanned October and December of 2010.
Get Image

“Good interagency communication and teamwork was what made the investigation a success,” said Dan Scott, Captain of the Maine Warden Service. “It’s been our experience that fish and wildlife violators know no jurisdictional boundaries, and this investigation once again proved that to be true. These individuals showed complete disregard for the wildlife laws of both Maine and Pennsylvania. By doing so, they were stealing opportunity and natural resources from the citizens of both states.”
In January, a team of Game Commission investigators traveled to Maine to accompany Maine Warden Service investigators on the execution of five search warrants as a result of the investigation. During the execution of these warrants, investigators seized hundreds of pounds of deer meat, firearms, deer antlers, bows and arrows, spotlights, a mounted hawk and owls, a computer, documents and other hunting-related equipment.
The four adults charged in Pennsylvania were: Everett Tyler Leonard, 31, Everett H. (Lenny) Leonard, 59, and Carlton John Enos, 19, all of Turner; and Lucien H. Clavet, 44, of Monmouth. The 17-year-old juvenile, from Greene, will be charged with multiple summary violations involving the unlawful killing and attempting to kill deer both out of season and at night with a spotlight, using a motor vehicle to hunt and possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle.
Pennsylvania Game Commission Special Operations Division Chief Thomas P. Grohol and Bradford County Wildlife Conservation Officer Vernon I. Perry III filed Pennsylvania’s charges against the group before Magisterial District Judge Jonathan Wilcox of Troy, Bradford County on Feb. 23.
The law to increase fines and penalties for poaching was made possible by House Bill 1859, which was sponsored by House Game and Fisheries Committee Democrat Chairman Edward G. Staback. The bill was approved by the House on July 21, 2009, by a vote of 196-3. The Senate, after making minor adjustments to the bill, approved the measure unanimously on July 3, 2010, followed by a 189-6 concurrence vote in the House also on July 3. The bill was signed into law on July 9, making it Act 54 of 2010.

Among the 250 charges filed against the adult defendants are the following:

Defendant 1: Everett T. (Tyler) Leonard, 31 of Turner, Maine:
Total charges: 117
Highlights of Title 34 Game and Wildlife Code Charges:

· 22 Felony 3 counts of Section 2321 Unlawful killing or taking of big game(white-tailed deer). Possible Penalty: Up to $15,000 and up to 36 months imprisonment per count.

· 4 Misdemeanor of the first degree counts of Section 2321 Unlawful killing or taking of big game (White-tailed deer). Possible Penalty: Up to $10,000 and up to 18 months imprisonment per count.

· 4 Misdemeanor counts of Section 2321 Unlawful killing or taking of big game (White-tailed deer). Possible Penalty: Up to $3,000 and up to 6 months imprisonment per count.

· 2 Misdemeanor Counts of Section 2312 Buying and Selling Game(White-tailed deer).
Possible penalties: Up to $3,000 and up to 6 months imprisonment per count.

· 9 Summary 2nd degree counts of Section 2307 Unlawful taking or possession of game or wildlife (White-tailed deer). Possible Penalty: $400 to $800 and up to one month imprisonment per count.

· 7 Summary 5th degree counts of Section 2310 Unlawful use of lights while hunting (spotlighting while in possession of a firearm or bow and arrow). Possible Penalty: $100 to $200 per count.

In addition to Game and Wildlife Code Violations, the defendant also was charged with:

· 4 Misdemeanor counts of The Controlled Substance, drug, device and cosmetic Act, Section 780-113 Prohibited Acts. Possible Penalties: Up to $5,000 in fines and up to three years imprisonment per count.

· 1 Misdemeanor 3 count of Pa. Crimes Code Section 4906, False reports to law enforcement authorities. Possible penalty: Up to $2,500 in fines and up to one year imprisonment.


Defendant 2: Everett H. (Lenny) Leonard, 59, of Turner, Maine:
Total charges: 52
Highlights of Title 34 Game and Wildlife Code Charges:

· 14 Felony 3 counts of Section 2321 Unlawful killing or taking of big game (White-tailed deer). Possible Penalty: Up to $15,000 and up to 36 months imprisonment per count.

· 2 Misdemeanor of the first degree counts of Section 2321 Unlawful killing or taking of big game (White-tailed deer). Possible Penalty: Up to $10,000 and up to 18 months imprisonment per count.

· 4 Misdemeanor counts of Section 2321 Unlawful killing or taking of big game (White-tailed deer). Possible Penalty: Up to $3,000 and up to 6 months imprisonment per count.

· 2 Summary 2nd degree counts of Section 2307 Unlawful taking or possession of game or wildlife (White-tailed deer). Possible Penalty: $400 to $800 and up to one month imprisonment per count.

In addition to Game and Wildlife Code Violations, the defendant also was charged with:

· 2 Misdemeanor counts of The Controlled Substance, drug, device and cosmetic Act, Section 780-113 Prohibited Acts. Possible Penalties: Up to $5,000 in fines and up to three years imprisonment per count.

· 1 Misdemeanor 3 count of Pa. Crimes Code Section 4906, False reports to law enforcement authorities. Possible penalty: Up to $2,500 in fines and up to one year imprisonment.


Defendant 3: Carlton John Enos, 19, of Turner, Maine:
Total Charges: 59
Highlights of Title 34 Game and Wildlife Code:

· 11 Felony 3 counts of Section 2321 Unlawful killing or taking of big game (White-tailed deer). Possible Penalty: Up to $15,000 and up to 36 months imprisonment per count.

· 4 Misdemeanor of the first degree counts of Section 2321 Unlawful killing or taking of big game (White-tailed deer). Possible Penalty: Up to $10,000 and up to 18 months imprisonment per count.

beaverhillhunter
03-01-2011, 07:34 PM
I agree that those guys were let off to easy.
Maybe if they charged those who disobey the law with higher costing violations they wouldnt have to raise the cost of the licences of those who obey the law.
But I also dont know exactly how each persons exact situation. For example Mr. Sibley is charged for failing to tag a deer as required
By not doing it as required he may of pissed the wrong officer off on both their bad days, and then the officer may of found the dates were not cut out while we was dragging the deer out, or a forgotten signature, a simply step forgotten while the others were done.
So I think some violations should have a higher cost, but like in Mr. Sibleys case if he had just forgotten a small piece of information due to a lack of knowledge, or another reason should not be heavily punished i he is otherwise known as a fine law abiding sportsman.

outdoorstom
03-01-2011, 09:20 PM
does DEC offer a link on their homepage to obtain this information??
i would like to see the fines in my area..
thanks

I have never seen them posted on the DEC's site. I got these out of the Watertown Times.

Beechnut
03-03-2011, 01:49 PM
Ahhh Gouverneur, NY, my birthplace. Those folks are what we call northern rednecks! Sad thing is there's people like that all over the world.

qdm4me
03-04-2011, 08:17 AM
I have never seen them posted on the DEC's site. I got these out of the Watertown Times.

ok.. thank you

woodsman324
03-04-2011, 11:06 AM
Last year GJS4 posted a bunch of these. I think he got the info from the DEC office in Olean. I think he did it a few times and was going to get more from other regional offices but I'm not sure if it happened or not.

LetMGrow
03-05-2011, 03:34 PM
The violation fines in NY are pathetic. Fishing without a license $ 50? Heck, don't buy a license for a couple years and you are ahead of the game.
I find info on DEC fines often on the website www.newzjunky.com.
I didn't see anything there today but it is often there. If you click onto dec region 6 on the right it will lead to dec news. BTW, if you click onto the newzjunky site, scroll down to the article about the Polar Bear dip. Click onto Brittnee. Gads, a doe with a rack. LOL
Lynn

Wayne
03-07-2011, 09:55 AM
[QUOTE=LetMGrow;377032]The violation fines in NY are pathetic.


Just about as pathetic as the DEC manages our deer herd..

outdoorstom
03-07-2011, 02:01 PM
[quote=LetMGrow;377032]The violation fines in NY are pathetic.


Just about as pathetic as the DEC manages our deer herd..

Not to turn this into a discussion about the DEC, but at least in my area I think they're doing a good job. Or, my good hunting could partly be due to all my habitat work!:)

Land Owner
03-07-2011, 03:09 PM
The fines should be set to REIMBURSE and RECOMPENSE the State (We The People) for the LEO man-hours spent investigating and corroborating the criminal activity, man-hours that We The People paid in taxes to these LEO's and Courts to protect the resources of the State.

Rarely, in my opinion, do LEO's just "walk up" and spot violations, which would be a net "income" for We The People if it was so easy = dumb hunters. Mostly, LEO's spend months in season trying to gather enough evidence. The huge Public payroll expenditure isn't comparable to the minuscule fines. In the mean time, the resources are being illegally depleted and We The People are paying for it on multiple fronts - in taxes and the depleted resources. Ouch!

If bonuses were established for LEO's hard work (and those that help LEO's complete their jobs), not unlike the rewards for tips that lead to arrest and convictions, an incentive would be set that might enable an increase in busts and a decrease in infractions against wildlife. Funding rewards would be problematic and I do not have that solution.

I am an LEO's eyes and ears when I am in the field.

outdoorstom
03-07-2011, 06:19 PM
The fines should be set to REIMBURSE and RECOMPENSE the State (We The People) for the LEO man-hours spent investigating and corroborating the criminal activity, man-hours that We The People paid in taxes to these LEO's and Courts to protect the resources of the State.

Rarely, in my opinion, do LEO's just "walk up" and spot violations, which would be a net "income" for We The People if it was so easy = dumb hunters. Mostly, LEO's spend months in season trying to gather enough evidence. The huge Public payroll expenditure isn't comparable to the minuscule fines. In the mean time, the resources are being illegally depleted and We The People are paying for it on multiple fronts - in taxes and the depleted resources. Ouch!

If bonuses were established for LEO's hard work (and those that help LEO's complete their jobs), not unlike the rewards for tips that lead to arrest and convictions, an incentive would be set that might enable an increase in busts and a decrease in infractions against wildlife. Funding rewards would be problematic and I do not have that solution.

I am an LEO's eyes and ears when I am in the field.

You make some EXCELLENT points here. I totally agree the fines should be enough to pay the LEO's hours spent on the case.
For sure you're not the only one acting as the eyes and ears....I have the poachers hotline number in my cell phone.

LetMGrow
03-08-2011, 10:39 AM
If nothing else, it must be disheartning for a C.O. to work hard on a case and see the violator get away with a miniscule fine.
Maybe we should start a drive to contact our legislators about this and see if we can change the ways things are being done.
Lynn

Land Owner
03-08-2011, 03:53 PM
It would be easier to get the First Black Man in the Oval Office to show the Nation his birth certificate I am thinking.

You are right. Something should be done, started here(?), and worked to a solution. I started to post that "getting blood out of some of these turnips is going to be fruitless, especially when they have nothing.", but then decided that they already have something, the money stolen from the people through their long-running and illegal activities. I say take them down, take down the people with whom they are associated, and then take down the people with whom their associates are associated. I am advocating the Justice Departments to "burn their buildings and salt their fields" sort of retribution.

Wayne
03-09-2011, 04:21 PM
If nothing else, it must be disheartning for a C.O. to work hard on a case and see the violator get away with a miniscule fine.
Maybe we should start a drive to contact our legislators about this and see if we can change the ways things are being done.
Lynn

I think most DEC violations and/or crimes have a minimum and maximum fine and the maximums are high. But, it's up to the Judge that has jurisdiction to weigh all evidence and then determine guilt or innocence and the apropriate fine or to dismiss it all together. That's how our system works. So be very careful what you ask your legislature for.

You guys make me laugh. ECO's getting dishearted because "of miniscule fines." They receive their $60-70 thousand annual salery plus overtime and benefits, reguardless of the amount of the fines.

outdoorstom
03-09-2011, 06:45 PM
I think most DEC violations and/or crimes have a minimum and maximum fine and the maximums are high. But, it's up to the Judge that has jurisdiction to weigh all evidence and then determine guilt or innocence and the apropriate fine or to dismiss it all together. That's how our system works. So be very careful what you ask your legislature for.

You guys make me laugh. ECO's getting dishearted because "of miniscule fines." They receive their $60-70 thousand annual salery plus overtime and benefits, reguardless of the amount of the fines.


Without a doubt they get disheartened.....wouldn't you? You make it sound like they've got an easy job and only care about money. They have a dangerous job that a lot of people wouldn't do.

Deerfly
03-09-2011, 07:08 PM
I think most DEC violations and/or crimes have a minimum and maximum fine and the maximums are high. But, it's up to the Judge that has jurisdiction to weigh all evidence and then determine guilt or innocence and the apropriate fine or to dismiss it all together. That's how our system works. So be very careful what you ask your legislature for.

You guys make me laugh. ECO's getting dishearted because "of miniscule fines." They receive their $60-70 thousand annual salery plus overtime and benefits, reguardless of the amount of the fines.

Do you have any idea of the wide range of areas of enforcement that your ECO's are responsible for? They not only enforce the game laws they are also responsible for enforcement of solid waste regs, hazardous waste regs,soil and erosion regs, wetland regs and they assist local police on regular law enforcement issues when requested.

Would you want that job?

Wayne
03-10-2011, 08:44 PM
Do you have any idea of the wide range of areas of enforcement that your ECO's are responsible for? They not only enforce the game laws they are also responsible for enforcement of solid waste regs, hazardous waste regs,soil and erosion regs, wetland regs and they assist local police on regular law enforcement issues when requested.

Would you want that job?

ROFLMAO, if they are truly dishearted and there's too much responsibility for them, then look for other employment. I and the state of WI, and millions of other americans are sick and tired of overpayed public employees that think the world will stop revolving without them.

When I got out of colledge I worked for the NYSDEC, so yes, I there was a time when I would've taken that job and for a hell of alot less money.