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traqem
02-18-2011, 02:56 PM
This is the stuff the Bama fan put on our live oaks at Toomer's corner in Auburn. I've seen some information about this stuff in the media, but know not to trust everything I see or read.

Can anyone here give me the truth about this stuff? Just how nasty is it? What are the accepted uses for it? Just what kind of controls are in place to guy and use this stuff?

smsmith
02-18-2011, 03:03 PM
I can't help on your questions, but just wanted to say how asinine an act I thought it was. What the heck is he thinking?

I mean, I don't much care for Iowa, Ohio State or Michigan football - but I sure as heck am not going to do criminal damage to property if they win the naitonal championship (which will most likely never happen :D ).

Hope the foresters down there are able to save those trees.

FL Forester
02-18-2011, 03:27 PM
It is made by Dow Chemical. Here is what the website listed for primary uses -
Surface applied herbicides for woody plant control, including highways, fencerows, industrial sites, clearings for wildlife habitats, utility and railroads rights-of-way, and pipelines. Spike 20P and Spike 80DF, can be used for preemergence and postemergence control.

From what I have read about the chemical it is mostly used in exotic species control and pleces where repeated application for brush control are required (fence rows, powerlines).

Every state has different requirements for when you have to have a license and for what chemicals.

This is an act of vandalism and the person needs to be punished to the full extent of the law.

hunterrep
02-18-2011, 03:27 PM
I can't help on your questions, but just wanted to say how asinine an act I thought it was. What the heck is he thinking?

I mean, I don't much care for Iowa, Ohio State or Michigan football - but I sure as heck am not going to do criminal damage to property if they win the naitonal championship (which will most likely never happen :D ).

Hope the foresters down there are able to save those trees.


As an OSU fan, the rivalry between OSU and the Badgers is growing strong, especially when you keep kicking the #1 spot out from under us. The national championship comment was hurtful. :)
Sorry can't answer your questions either traqem but from what I have heard, this stuff is very effective and the outlook for those trees is not good.
What a stinking turd that guy is. No remorse either.
Go Bucks!

traqem
02-18-2011, 03:29 PM
Thanks. I hope someone may have some answers.

There is lots of hate in this rivalry. The rivaly is the greatest in the country, but unfortunately, this kind of crap is how it gets defined outside the state due to the bad apples. I hope it ends here and there is no stupid retaliation.

smsmith
02-18-2011, 03:33 PM
Wow, a tOSU fan in MI? That's gotta go over well on game day :rolleyes:

I can understand rooting for someone who wins though :p

The guy they brought in for Rich Rod - he gonna suck as much as his predecessor?

Sorry for the hijack

Redonthehead
02-18-2011, 03:57 PM
dimwit was a ex state trooper even.

I would think they would try to remove and replace as much topsoil as possible, even to the point of damaging the uppermost fine roots. Then saturate with water to dilute the remaining chemical.

THE, LLC
02-18-2011, 04:49 PM
He'd get less time if he'd just shot a fan.

crimson n' camo
02-18-2011, 04:58 PM
From all the things I have heard, it does not look good for the trees.

Some people are just idiots and unfortunately we live in a state with a very high population of them. As if enough aren't being born here already, now we have them migrating in from Texas. I am as die hard an Alabama fan as they come but what this guy did is just bad form. There should be just as much said for how a person conducts himself in defeat as he does in victory. This guy was just a drunken river rat. I hate that he did what he did and represented us in a bad light. (No offense to the drunken river rats that I know)

That being said, I think the guy had some serious personal issues and this probably went well beyond an issue with a football game.

banc123
02-18-2011, 05:40 PM
Its tough stuff , its tank mixed 2.5 lbs with 10gal of water covers 1/2 mile of fence line. What makes it tough is its a soil active product that is applied to the soil and then its transfered to the roots. From what I read, he used 65 times the recommended dose when you add up the square feet that was covered vs the lbs in the mix.

Sounded like they were working with Dow on some potential treatments , but due to the amount used, the outlook was grim.

Its hard to believe someone puts personal fan favor ahead of a historic settings. I read where the punishment for that type of crime was 10 days in jail and up to $15,000 in fines. Bid deal. They should file a civil law suit against him for the cost of treatment, observation and restitution for replacement value for land mark. Would be in the millions.

traqem
02-18-2011, 07:51 PM
Good information Banc. The next thing that I would really like to hear from someone is what kind of controls both the state and, most importantly, the federal government place on this stuff. Latest word is that the EPA and FBI are considering involvement. Of course, I hope they can get involved and have some good statutes to cover this.

As it stands right now, what he's charged with carries a statute maximum 10 year sentence, but the true sentence will not likely include any meaningful prison time. I am a former Agent myself, but I have no idea what kind of federal controls and laws cover this sort of thing. I know that the investigators will have to have agreement from the Justice Department before hand that he will be prosecuted federallly before they can afford to become involved. I also know that won't happen unless there is a meaningful federal punishment that significantly exceeds state punishment. So, my biggest question right now is does anyone know what federal controls and law cover improper use of this stuff?

The problem with fines is that this POS doesn't have any money. He rents a house on Lake Martin, has had 16 IRS liens filed against him, and has numerous bad check charges against him all over the place. Fines are not the answer here.

banc123
02-18-2011, 08:15 PM
saftey sheet (http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp4HG001.pdf)

Supplemental for AL users (http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld4HG006.pdf)

Clearly says its a federal offense to use it in a manner inconsistent with the labeling.

You can buy it on e-bay so it doesn't appear restricted.

garyc
02-19-2011, 05:19 AM
My uncle uses it on his fencerows, it's nasty stuff. It not only kills the vegetation but it won't come back, it keeps the fencerow bare for years.

I don't watch much football, never cared much for it. However, this type of crap makes me wish they'd bring back public flogging. If there ever was a candidate for it, it's this jacka$$.

Deer_Farmer
02-20-2011, 07:22 PM
Because it is a violation of federal law to use it in a manner not intended, this is the key to adding on charges. I have never heard of the FBI or EPA getting involved with an isolated inappropriate herbicide application, but the jurisdiction is there if they want to use it. I am generally against the EPA getting involved with anything these days, but I would personally drive them down there if they will fire up their big guns towards this guy.

As an Auburn graduate and avid Auburn football fan, this incident really made me take a step back and evaluate my intense obsession with this rivalry. I quit listening to Finebaum about a year ago, but I'm giving up following AU or UA football until kickoff of the first Auburn game. I think every fan should take a self evaluation in this state on where they are. It's getting ridiculous.

Deer Farmer

dgallow
02-21-2011, 12:27 AM
Tebuthiron is the active ingriedient....two formulations Spike 20P and Spike80df.

It was used extensively via airplane in crosstimbers of OK in the 70s and 80s to kill timber for conversion to pasture. Most ranches which were spreayed were later dozer chained and then burned. Soil treated with 20P granules (2lb ai/ac...10 lb granusles/ac) will be bare for a couple years (essentially a soil steralent) . First successionals are NWSG, ERC, blackberry, and sumac. Oaks will be toast and the standing dead skeltons are like concrete. I won't put a saw into them anymore. Trees of all sepcies will eventually repulate treated areas. When used properly, openings can be created, but succession is not rapid. I have some 20P and it is reserved mostly for remote fence clearing.

traqem
02-21-2011, 09:23 PM
I have accepted that the trees are going to die, but man, this is some really mean stuff. The scene you describe sounds like something from Mad Max.

I'm sure this was 100% about football to updyke, but for Auburn people, this has literally NOTHING to do about football. I'm getting really sick of hearing about football, even though I love it so. For every true Auburn fan I know, especially those of us who went to school there, the city of Auburn is just a very special place. That corner is the very center of that special place and these trees are the centerpieces of the corner. That's why this is so painful, not because it's where TP is thrown to celebrate football and other events. I've been going there since I was 4. I can remember marvelling even way back then at the famous pictures of the corner in Toomer's Drugs (the same pictures used to hang in The Bottle before it was torn down). Those pictures were of the corner just after the turn of the century or in the teens and they focused on those trees.

CaveCreek
02-21-2011, 11:05 PM
From all the things I have heard, it does not look good for the trees.

Some people are just idiots and unfortunately we live in a state with a very high population of them. As if enough aren't being born here already, now we have them migrating in from Texas.

What? :confused:

We must be sending ya'll our "culls". :cool: